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Author Topic:   Is this Bible verse about believers and poison to be taken literally?
PecosGeorge
Member (Idle past 6903 days)
Posts: 863
From: Texas
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 36 of 142 (202948)
04-27-2005 8:44 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by nator
04-25-2005 10:24 PM


Metaphor
quote:
It very clearly says that anyone who believes that Jesus is the Messiah will be able to drink any deadly thing without coming to any harm
I'll go with the metaphor, Schraffie (how you doin', Sweetie? Hope all is well with you), since God knows that there are things inherently harmful, and poisonous snakes are exactly that.
There is an account of Paul being bitten by a viper....
quote:
Acts 28:3
And when Paul had gathered a bundle of sticks, and laid [them] on the fire, there came a viper out of the heat, and fastened on his hand.
Act 28:4
And when the barbarians saw the [venomous] beast hang on his hand, they said among themselves, No doubt this man is a murderer, whom, though he hath escaped the sea, yet vengeance suffereth not to live.
Act 28:5
And he shook off the beast into the fire, and felt no harm.
Act 28:6
Howbeit they looked when he should have swollen, or fallen down dead suddenly: but after they had looked a great while, and saw no harm come to him, they changed their minds, and said that he was a god.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by nator, posted 04-25-2005 10:24 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by nator, posted 04-27-2005 8:58 AM PecosGeorge has replied

  
PecosGeorge
Member (Idle past 6903 days)
Posts: 863
From: Texas
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 41 of 142 (203015)
04-27-2005 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by nator
04-27-2005 8:58 AM


Re: Metaphor
quote:
I'm doing well, PG, thank you for asking. How about yourself?
Glad you are well and happy. Am good myself.
quote:
I'll go with the metaphor
I think it works well as metaphor, although I think the writers of the passage thought it was litterally the case that believers would be able to drink any deadly thing without harm.
Well, we do know there are all kinds of nut cases. I saw a man once on TV stick his hand in a bowl of liquid and claim it was acid.
From the ludicrous to the absurd, Schraffie, from the snake handlers to the holy rollers, God loves them all. What he does not do is party with idiots, and drinking a harmful substance is idiotic and asking for it.
Take care!
George

Pascal's Wager......nice try.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by nator, posted 04-27-2005 8:58 AM nator has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by Dan Carroll, posted 04-27-2005 1:35 PM PecosGeorge has replied
 Message 44 by jar, posted 04-27-2005 1:51 PM PecosGeorge has replied

  
PecosGeorge
Member (Idle past 6903 days)
Posts: 863
From: Texas
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 42 of 142 (203016)
04-27-2005 1:20 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by CK
04-27-2005 11:44 AM


Re: Metaphor
quote:
So who shall I give the rat poison to first?
Let Dr. Jekyll be your example.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by CK, posted 04-27-2005 11:44 AM CK has not replied

  
PecosGeorge
Member (Idle past 6903 days)
Posts: 863
From: Texas
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 46 of 142 (203054)
04-27-2005 3:48 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Dan Carroll
04-27-2005 1:35 PM


Re: Metaphor
quote:
Except that it's not simply drinking poison. It's reading God's word, in which it is stated that God will protect you, and trusting God to keep him promise.
Is that trust idiotic?
It's like swimming way out into the ocean without the means of getting back, then calling on God and saying 'ok, I'm here, now get me there'.
Therefore, it is meant metaphorically.
Come let us reason together, says the Lord......
I see no reason or logic in drinking poison.

Pascal's Wager......nice try.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Dan Carroll, posted 04-27-2005 1:35 PM Dan Carroll has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by Dan Carroll, posted 04-27-2005 4:37 PM PecosGeorge has not replied

  
PecosGeorge
Member (Idle past 6903 days)
Posts: 863
From: Texas
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 47 of 142 (203057)
04-27-2005 3:52 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by jar
04-27-2005 1:51 PM


Re: Metaphor
Well, if it was an acid he'd probably be okay. If it was a base though ...
>>>>>>>>>
Aslan is the only lion, eh, Jar?
Who knows what that character stuck his hand into. But, he was having fun claiming impervious.

Pascal's Wager......nice try.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by jar, posted 04-27-2005 1:51 PM jar has not replied

  
PecosGeorge
Member (Idle past 6903 days)
Posts: 863
From: Texas
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 72 of 142 (203323)
04-28-2005 10:36 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by Dan Carroll
04-27-2005 1:35 PM


Temptation
Except that it's not simply drinking poison. It's reading God's word, in which it is stated that God will protect you, and trusting God to keep him promise.
Is that trust idiotic?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Thought I might share the following with you, before I boogie again. Drinking poison, throwing yourself off the temple, etc., comes under the same heading as tempting God. As for the poison drinking suggestion? Many disciplines use illustrations, if taken literally would cause enormous confusion, etc.
Here is Christ's response to the temptor who tempts him to tempt God.
You notice who the instigator of this temptation is, and so it is with all temptation, you notice that he knows only too well what is written and uses the written word against its author.
Matthew 4:5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
4:7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

Pascal's Wager......nice try.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Dan Carroll, posted 04-27-2005 1:35 PM Dan Carroll has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Dan Carroll, posted 04-28-2005 12:04 PM PecosGeorge has not replied
 Message 80 by sidelined, posted 04-28-2005 6:49 PM PecosGeorge has not replied

  
PecosGeorge
Member (Idle past 6903 days)
Posts: 863
From: Texas
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 100 of 142 (203693)
04-29-2005 2:11 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by Faith
04-28-2005 7:05 PM


Re: Temptation
quote:
Pecos George is correct. You are doing the twisting, and in a very persistent, even belligerent way. Jesus said these signs shall FOLLOW them. It's a prediction of God's powers that will attend the preaching of the gospel in the world. These powers will be GIVEN when danger occurs, but we are NEVER to do something to put ourselves in danger, aas Jesus himself said back to the devil when the devil told him to prove He was the Son of God by jumping off a high building -- can't do that, that is tempting God. So Jesus would never teach anyone to tempt God by putting himself in danger. Unless of course you want to call Him a hypocrite, and maybe you do by the sound of it.
Anyway, those signs DID follow those who spread the gospel, as already proved by various postings on this thread. Paul survived the bite of a deadly snake -- he didn't seek out the snake, the snake just bit him. And the first Christians had the various supernatural gifts distributed among them that Jesus says will follow the believers in Mark 16.
Hi, Faith.
Thought I might check in to see how you are getting on.
I don't mind explaining things, until it becomes clear that no explanation will be/can be accepted. (Schraffie did agree to the metaphor).
It's not that difficult to tell when obtuse is played the trump, or when it is natural. Since most of the people here are not really obtuse, they are deliberately playing obtuse as a strategy.
Tormenting the target they pick, turns them on, much like a naughty boy might torment a cat.
Your explanation cannot be accepted, because that would stop the fun. No rubbing hands together, grinning in the mirror.....'geez, I've put it to that Christian jerk today"......
You are talking to people who have already made it abundantly clear that they have no use for your beliefs. They are disrespectful, taunting, angry, uncharitable, without natural affection for their fellow-man.
You got the picture, don't you?
George

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Faith, posted 04-28-2005 7:05 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by Faith, posted 04-29-2005 2:35 PM PecosGeorge has replied

  
PecosGeorge
Member (Idle past 6903 days)
Posts: 863
From: Texas
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 102 of 142 (203701)
04-29-2005 2:36 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by nator
04-29-2005 7:43 AM


Re: Back to "Some questions"
quote:
.......reports of Christian missionaries able to heal people by the laying on of hands......
The Great Physician, Schraffie, has all kinds of physicians who go healing to those places, using their hands........using what they have learned by diligent study of the materials extant, daily adding more information. We have different means these days to apply healing hands. Knowledge increases.....has increased...where the erstwhile means are no longer necessary, abilities are lost to be regained some other way, are supplanted by a wonderful thing called science.
I think Bennie Hinn can do some 'stuff'. He makes me laugh.
Do you really want to participate in the ridicule of the Christ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by nator, posted 04-29-2005 7:43 AM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by nator, posted 05-01-2005 8:34 AM PecosGeorge has not replied

  
PecosGeorge
Member (Idle past 6903 days)
Posts: 863
From: Texas
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 103 of 142 (203704)
04-29-2005 2:44 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by Faith
04-29-2005 2:35 PM


Re: Temptation
quote:
Yeah George, I got the picture a long time ago, but I'm trying to be charitable and assume obtuseness instead of mere malice and learn to exercise EXTREME patience instead of blowing up all the time. Thanks for looking in. I need the sanity break from time to time.
My brother, be what they understand. Which would be?
See ya later!
Maranatha!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by Faith, posted 04-29-2005 2:35 PM Faith has not replied

  
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