quote:
Originally posted by jalajo
Since the world (cosmos) exists and something cannot come from nothing, there must be a creator, thus God exists.
Hello jalajo,
The concept of infinite regression is inherent in the first part of your statement above. If "
something cannot come from nothing", then everything that exists had to come from something else. Thus you have an infinite regression of precedents; i.e., the cosmos came from God, God came from the creator of God, who came from the creator of the creator of God, ad infinitum.
The fallacy of the Cosmological Argument is that the first part sets down the conditions for the premise, and then the second part immediately assumes the existence of something that is exempt from these conditions. Thus, rather than a logical inference, what you are left with is merely the same unsupported assumption that you began with.
quote:
"So God created us with noses and ears because they would be so useful in holding on our glasses?"
jalajo:
Not quite sure what you mean by this but...no He didn't. He, in fact, created our noses and ears so that we could smell and hear. I dont mean to be sarcastic, but i truly am confused on your answer.
Order and useful arrangement in a system imply intelligence and purpose in its organizing cause.
As to "order": We have been able (to some extent) to describe mathematically the physical interaction of matter with matter based on the properties of such things as chemistry, electro-magnetism, thermodynamics, and gravitation. However, the fact that matter tends to react consistently to these forces should not be confused with the concept of "order". The path of, and resulting devastation caused by, an impacting asteroid is governed by these same forces and described by the same mathematics.
As to "useful arrangement": My reply was intended to point up the question: "What makes an arrangement useful?" Is the arrangement of our noses and ears useful for holding on glasses because an omnipotent deity arranged it that way, or did we simply adapt to, and make use of, whatever arrangement happened to exist? IOW, as I have heard it stated: Does the water puddle marvel that the pothole it sits in must have been pre-created in exactly the shape and size necessary for a perfect fit?
quote:
jalajo:
No, culture does sometimes define, in a way, what is culturally accepted as right and wrong, but that idea of some things being right and others being wrong is attributed to a sense of morality.
. . . it must have come from a moral being who placed it within man.
Here, you are attempting to create a false dichotomy between "what a culture defines as right or wrong" vs. an enigmatic "sense of morality". In reality, however, the two are one and the same.
IOW, what a given culture defines as right or wrong
is their sense of morality. And, as such, if this "sense of morality" was imbued by God, every person and/or culture would define it in the same way. But, that isn't what we observe.
quote:
jalajo:
Oh, and this isn't any type of argument or any counterpoint,but your right man hasn't ever "invented" a perfect God.I know that sounds really religiously retarded, but hey, if you give your opinion i'll give mine.
I understand, but just like the morality issue above, if the perception of God was from God, we would all have the same perception of God. But, again, since this isn't what we observe, we are left instead with each "special interest group" claiming that it is only they that have truly conceived of God.
Amlodhi
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