A question for believers - why the Bible?

Hi, Markcus. You have a link to Peter Kreeft! The man is no slouch and he presents some decent arguments! Norman Geisler is another good one to check out! Of course, if one is prone to believe in logic and dismis the validity of the Bible based on atheism.orgs list of reasons or some other such drivel, they will never read the links to begin with! By this I mean: Check out the credentials of the wisdom and the ones behind it. Who started the "list of theist stumpers" for example? What type of moral fiber and character is shown in the author? I am not suggesting that the supporters of the Bible are any better than others, but I DO respect good sermons and passionate speeches as much if not more than dry assertions and vindicative attempts at attacking a solid ancient book. Merry Christmas,EvC!This message has been edited by Phatboy, 12-23-2004 05:20 AM

Peter Kreeft, Ph.D., is a professor of philosophy at Boston College. He is a regular contributor to several Christian publications, is in wide demand as a speaker at conferences, and is the author of over 40 books including:
Handbook of Christian Apologetics
Christianity for Modern Pagans
Fundamentals of the Faith. On his website, he has several arguments for proving Gods existance. Peter Kreeft - Featured Writings shows the links to his logic. This message has been edited by Phatboy, 12-24-2004 02:46 AM

A Question For BelieversOur original topic post was: Additionally, the topic is addressed to "believers" and in order to approach the topic from that perspective, I must be free to quote other "believers" even if they are branded as simplistic and absurd by you logical freethinkers.
If you dismiss Kreeft, BTW, what do you think of Geisler?http://alumnus.caltech.edu/~lin/files/absolute.html
So why do I believe that the Bible is divinely inspired? In order to answer this, I ask myself what divine inspiration is? Is it possible? Well, it has happened to me, so how can I dismiss it? My status as a believer was initially fostered by what I perceived as a divine impartation. The "born again" experience, if you will. OK. I can see some of what you are insinuating, but how can you "trash" someones experience? What about "internal harmony"? What do you tell the believers? Tell them they were brainwashed and produce evidence of how hypnosis works? Produce testimonies of ex-christians who finally woke up and found their brain?( and their ego!) Assume that once they see facts, they will dismiss their feelings and experiences?I will agree that much of organized religion is a self serving sham. This is human nature. Make a buck. Make a buck "disproving" the Bible, perhaps? Make a name for oneself? So how is it that some can view the Bible as a scattered early collection of writings by authors with an ulterior motive while others find a cohesiveness of meaning within this book?It all depends upon a persons worldview. A worldview is in essence a body of beliefs about life's most basic questions by which a person views or interprets the world. If your worldview is always filtered through the scientific method, for example, you may feel as if you never will get fooled. You will interpret virtually everything that you read, see, or come in contact with from a detached and unbiased position. Everything, that is, except yourself. How you think. What YOUR motives are. What you want to believe, deep down below the detachment. Ok, Brian. You have a theology degree. What do you believe about the concept of "original sin"? Some theologians are believers. They believe that God is real. They believe that His Spirit is alive and that they are not He. Other theologians are academic philosophers. They study and compare religious beliefs from an objective and a detached view.We need you objective guys to keep from hysteria, but we also must acknowledge that the origin of ones basic belief is also important. If you think that truth will be found through education, you MAY be right and you MAY be wrong. From the worldview of a believer, humanity at its very core does not even want to acknowledge the truth of a Creator. If we take the Bible totally out of the equation, how would a Christian form a worldview except based on their own internal feelings? How COULD a Christian form a worldview from a detached factual mode and still be a Christian by definition?Some would argue that we MUST trust our own internal conscience because only through that plus basic logic can we avoid deception. A wise point, although we are still faced with our belief on humanity as ultimately benevolant and good or humanity as flawed without a personal committment, surrender, and acknowledgement of a personal and loving God.A theologian without a belief in God is nothing more than a philosopher of religious human ideas. If you believe that this is all that is real, than you are not a believer. And so, if we do not believe in this Bible, all that we have to go on is our belief in our perception. Our belief in our internal locus of control. I think that we all share this belief.Some of us believe, ultimately, that internal wisdom is the source of all knowledge. Others believe in God. I can't explain or prove the difference between these two conclusions. Ultimately, I believe that He can.This message has been edited by Phatboy, 12-26-2004 03:41 AM

Hi, Brian. Good response by the way. I suppose that I could fret and worry about you being a theologian who may well be more of a humanist than a believer, but if I trust my God as all powerful and all good, I should then trust that the matter is between you and He. What do you make of the discussion between apologists such as R.C.Sproul and others who attempt to show the dangers of moral relativism vs truth as an absolute? IF there is one God, regardless of which religion or belief system He comes from, would it not make sense that the Spirit and truth of this God IS an absolute? No, I suppose that it is a sacred right to make up ones mind for themselves. I DO agree with you that far too many immature Christians do not understand why hammering at an issue using other peoples quotes and research does become a bit annoying to those of us who would prefer to arrive at our own decisions. And neither did Jesus. If He did rise from the dead and is in fact alive today, and IF this revelation of truth was grasped by some people, He is alive despite the ones who see no evidence to support the fact, however. I suppose that the best evidence for His divinity and Spirit is shining through those who claim to be believers. So since few believers have impressed you lately, I would suspect that there are truly few who HAVE been chosen.

When I first became a believer, I was convinced that a change had taken place within me. Often, Biblical quotes that would seem obscure in any normal context suddenly applied to my situation at just the right times. This could be explained, I suppose, but what really got me convinced that the Bible was more than a book was at a Bible study. Nobody knew what the topic would be or even the theme that we were headed towards. I had randomly read a portion of the Bible the night before and, upon arriving at the study, found that not only did an individual share the exact passage with me, but the topic of the study was the same topic! Now some would argue that this was planted in my subconscious somehow beforehand, but I am unconvinced of any skeptical alternative and convinced of the validity of the Spirit working through what would otherwise be a rather ordinary book.

They do not contradict each other if taken in a dispensational context. Paul was sent as the apostle to the Gentiles...the Church...the Body of Christ. The Gospels were directed towards the Kingdom that was promised to Israel. When Israel, concluded in unbelief, rejected Jesus Christ, the way was then open for the Church Age that we are in now. The Kingdom will continue after the Church is taken up. At this point I am not a thorough scholar on this, but a good source of tyhis theology is C.R. Stam.
http://www.geocities.com/protestantscot/ttd/chapter2.html