Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 59 (9164 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,929 Year: 4,186/9,624 Month: 1,057/974 Week: 16/368 Day: 16/11 Hour: 0/4


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   A Question About Deception
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 31 of 75 (320505)
06-11-2006 1:01 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Iname
06-09-2006 9:06 PM


illusions and reality
In reading through the topics from the last few years over the last month or so and I've come across several debates where YECs and other creationists have used arguements such as.....
quote:
:God could have created the Earth/Sun/Universe with the appearance of great age along with creating other false evidences in order to test your faith for whatever reason
So I have a question, if God is willing to decieve mankind about the age of the Earth, where then does the deception actually lie? How do you know that modern science isn't more or less correct about the age of the Universe, the age of Earth, and the origin of life and the Bible was meant as the deception? He could've very well have had the Bible written in the hopes that many of it's stories would be rejected as accurate portrayals of history one day.
What illusion is in the age of the earth? I feel that there is good evidence to support both a young earth and old earth hypothesis. In fact, Answers in Genesis and the Institute for Creation Research give lengthy reasons for why they believe the earth is young, while Reasons to Believe gives lengthy reasons for why the age of the earth is very old. I guess I'd have to ask, what deception is there in that the earth is either young or old? Just by looking at the earth around you, what determination have you made that the earth is either young or old? I have to first ask this question in order to go into anything else.

“Always be ready to give a defense to
everyone who asks you a reason for the
hope that is in you.”
-1st Peter 3:15

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Iname, posted 06-09-2006 9:06 PM Iname has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by nator, posted 06-11-2006 3:50 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 41 by RAZD, posted 06-11-2006 9:02 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 43 by ramoss, posted 06-11-2006 11:12 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 32 of 75 (320508)
06-11-2006 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by randman
06-09-2006 10:09 PM


Re: no deception
How stupid is the premise here. I mean it's not God's fault if men create myths of their own choosing, setting up assumptions and rules by which they consider data, refusing a priori some explanations and only accepting others. If men are deceived, they are deceiving themselves.
Exactly. Speculation has led to a priori, ruling some things out of bounds before it even gives it a chnace to make an honest inquiry.

“Always be ready to give a defense to
everyone who asks you a reason for the
hope that is in you.”
-1st Peter 3:15

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by randman, posted 06-09-2006 10:09 PM randman has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 33 of 75 (320510)
06-11-2006 1:13 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by ringo
06-10-2006 12:18 AM


Re: No Deception Atol.
I think it's a false analogy. A better analogy would be a tree that grows to a one-foot diameter in one day - complete with rings that give the appearance of many years' growth. Then, after that one day, the tree would grow at a rate of one ring per year.
I can tell you this much, Dendrochronology fits a Young-earth model better than it does anything else. In fact, the oldest known tree is a bristlecone pine in California. Lovingly referred to as, "Methuselah," for obvious reasons, its almost 5,000 years old, which is concurrent with the postdiluvian era where seeds were beginning to regerminate the earth after the Deluge.
Ancient Bristlecone Pine
Edited by nemesis_juggernaut, : Addition

“Always be ready to give a defense to
everyone who asks you a reason for the
hope that is in you.”
-1st Peter 3:15

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by ringo, posted 06-10-2006 12:18 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by PaulK, posted 06-11-2006 1:41 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 37 by ringo, posted 06-11-2006 2:17 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 36 of 75 (320522)
06-11-2006 1:50 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by randman
06-10-2006 4:09 PM


Re: No Deception Atol.
I don't argue for a young earth, but some do and they present physical arguments. Imo, the Bible does not indicate that the days of creation are 24 hour periods, but at the same time, if that was the case, the earth could still be very ancient and the 24 hour "day" idea be true.
Though you and I seem to be on par for the most part, I disagree with this one instance. The geophysical effects of the earth's rotation would have concievably spun much faster in the past because the Earth loses its kinetic energy at a fairly constant rate that we've been able to quantify due to all forms of friction acting upon it, which is perfectly compatible with the 2nd Law. In fact, the US Naval Observatory has to add leap seconds continually just to keep the timekeeper accurate. We know the earth is slowing down, which means there wasn't a 24 hour day in the past, but much shorter, maybe as much as 21 hours. Extrapolating backwards at the same rate, if the earth was 4.5 billion years old, it would have spun so fast so as to make it inhabitable due to the Coriolis Effect. If the earth didn't slow at the same rate as it measurably is currently, then old-agers have to figure out why that is.
That's the physical reason to help support a young-earth model. The Scriptural evidence can be found in Genesis. Moses stated, "In the beginning, when God created the heavens and the earth, the earth was a formless wasteland, and darkness covered the abyss, while a mighty wind swept over the waters. Then God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. God saw how good the light was. God then separated the light from the darkness. God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." Thus evening came, and morning followed--the first day. Then God said, "Let there be a dome in the middle of the waters, to separate one body of water from the other." And so it happened: God made the dome, and it separated the water above the dome from the water below it. God called the dome "the sky." Evening came, and morning followed--the second day. Then God said, "Let the water under the sky be gathered into a single basin, so that the dry land may appear." And so it happened: the water under the sky was gathered into its basin, and the dry land appeared.
God called the dry land "the earth," and the basin of the water he called "the sea." God saw how good it was. Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth vegetation: every kind of plant that bears seed and every kind of fruit tree on earth that bears fruit with its seed in it." And so it happened: the earth brought forth every kind of plant that bears seed and every kind of fruit tree on earth that bears fruit with its seed in it. God saw how good it was. Evening came, and morning followed--the third day.
-Genesis 1:1-13
Genesis 1 follows in this vein for all of the days. God gives him the distinction that it was day, then it was night, thus culminating in one day. So, the question is, why did he make such a distinction if it actually meant long epochs of geologic time?
I'm not a YEC or an OEC. I'm a follower of Jesus Christ. I have not made a 100% determination on where I stand. But in these two instances I feel that the Young-earth model is best supported.

“Always be ready to give a defense to
everyone who asks you a reason for the
hope that is in you.”
-1st Peter 3:15

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by randman, posted 06-10-2006 4:09 PM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by crashfrog, posted 06-11-2006 3:03 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 52 by randman, posted 06-12-2006 6:05 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024