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EvC Forum ⇒ Social and Religious Issues ⇒ Faith and Belief ⇒

God is cruel

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Author Topic:   God is cruel
Phat
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From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
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Message 32 of 301 (300629)
04-03-2006 2:40 PM 		Reply to: Message 1 by Protomenace
04-02-2006 7:15 PM

One Assumption too many
Protomenace writes:
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First let's make some assumptions. Let's assume that god is real, god created me, and atheists go to hell.
Ok, so if god created me, didn't he make me the way I am? He made a person who requires empirical evidence to believe things. As we all know, god has supplied no such evidence. So I go to hell? Wait a second, that seems a little unfair god. It's not my fault I'm the way I am, it's your fault. You made me this way. Isn't that a bit cruel on god's part?
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So, I have to assume that A. God is cruel. or B. God isn't real.
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Lets review the assumptions prior to the fact.
1) God is real. I can agree with that one.
2) God created me. Again, I agree that God is the uncaused first cause. Even if we evolved, He indirectly created us,IMHO.
3)atheists go to hell. Here is where the assumptions backed you into a corner. I don't know about Hell, and will, for the purpose of this discussion, assume that it is real. Even so, God never created Hell for human beings.
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God created Hell as a place where the spirits who freely request autonomy end up. Those spirits wanted a place to commune free from Gods influence and they got what they asked for.
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 Message 1 by Protomenace, posted 04-02-2006 7:15 PM Protomenace has not replied
Phat
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Posts: 18351
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0

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Message 76 of 301 (300789)
04-04-2006 6:54 AM 		Reply to: Message 74 by anglagard
04-04-2006 2:20 AM

God? Don't Be Cruel!
anglagard writes:
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Apparently the topic "is God cruel" is solely dependent upon a Christian fundamentalist or para-fundamentalist god. If the Bible is seen as parable instead of textbook, as strongly implied by the New Testament, then the defense of the critically-unexamined god loses necessity.
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The Bible itself may be a way in which God seperates the dogmatic, self-righteous, false-prophet, serving fundamentalist from the truly righteous, be they Christian, Bhuddist, Taoist, or Athiest, etc. based upon deeds instead of lies (knowing or otherwise).
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I tend to agree with you somewhat, anglagard! (Welcome to EvC by the way! )
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Just as the Pharisees and Sadducees were intellectually complete yet had dead hearts, so too may many of the modern fundamentalists possess extraordinary abilities to quote, recall, and use scripture to support their positions.
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The real issue is whether anyone can understand and benefit from the message shown!
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Phat
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Posts: 18351
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
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Message 209 of 301 (302377)
04-08-2006 11:46 AM 		Reply to: Message 162 by DorfMan
04-05-2006 8:00 PM

Topic Synopsis
protomenace writes:
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First let's make some assumptions. Let's assume that god is real, god created me, and atheists go to hell.
......So, I have to assume that A. God is cruel. or B. God isn't real.
Faith writes:
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Human beings were made in the image of God, that is, with God's moral and intellectual qualities, but Adam and Eve disobeyed God and ever since then we are flawed, we are spiritually dead to God and our moral and intellectual abilities are distorted.
Brian writes:
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The only conclusion, under the premises of the OP's argument is that God is cruel......According to Christianity, salvation comes through Jesus Christ. I think Jesus was either a con man, a self deluded nut, some sort of social reformer, or a phantom. I can't see me checkin in at the pearly gates.
I can, Brian! and we won't have to pay off Peter, either!
creavolution writes:
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To believe in something, it has to present itself(or be presented) as something believable, possible, and likely. Otherwise I fear i do not have the capability to believe in it.
I respect a good critical thinker!
Dorfman writes:
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Based on observation, in which you most certainly participate, ALL humanity IS punished when one man commits murder or adultery.
Now, all you have to do is connect the dots.
Are you talking about a communion with God? How one member of the family took the blame for the family reputation?
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Phat
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Posts: 18351
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
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Message 298 of 301 (304384)
04-15-2006 6:53 AM 		Reply to: Message 251 by Heathen
04-14-2006 2:10 PM

Edited for spalling
Creavolution writes:
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maybe we are all part of my imagination... maybe we are electrons circling a nucleus... maybe we are croutons in a universal soup... maybe...maybe....maybe...
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And maybe we are finally given the opportunity....through communication....to fullfill our purpose and destiny!
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RiverRat is a good friend as well! My take on the whole matter is How could God be so cruel if so many ordinary people are not?
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Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either, but right through every human heart, and through all human hearts. This line shifts. Inside us, it oscillates with the years. Even within hearts overwhelmed by evil, one small bridgehead of good is retained; and even in the best of all hearts, there remains a small corner of evil. --Alexander Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18351
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0

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Message 299 of 301 (304385)
04-15-2006 6:57 AM 		Reply to: Message 292 by fallacycop
04-15-2006 12:00 AM

Re: Empty point
Where did you get the name, fallacycop? Are you from Brazil?? How are things there? I have heard that they have a lot of voodoo and supernatural beliefs down there! You gotta tell me about them some time! (Brazil, that is!)
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If I can see that you are not cruel, I can have hope that IF God exists, God also is not cruel!
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This message has been edited by Phat, 04-15-2006 04:58 AM
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Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either, but right through every human heart, and through all human hearts. This line shifts. Inside us, it oscillates with the years. Even within hearts overwhelmed by evil, one small bridgehead of good is retained; and even in the best of all hearts, there remains a small corner of evil. --Alexander Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago
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