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Author Topic:   What if Satan reformed?
Jaderis
Member (Idle past 3456 days)
Posts: 622
From: NY,NY
Joined: 06-16-2006


Message 125 of 234 (351209)
09-22-2006 2:34 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Archer Opteryx
08-18-2006 5:02 PM


Origen of Alexandria
I'm not quite sure that this answers the OP questions specifically, but I wanted to throw it out as food for thought.
The 3rd century Christian theologian, Origen, proposed that at the end of time all souls would be saved, including Satan's. His rationalization for this is that all souls were once of God and fell away and that if God is truly all loving and good then all souls must return to him and "end subject to his care"*(p.149) (although he also argued that those who rejected God would be given their "just deserts"*(p.148) before this happened). He also proposed that if God were truly omnipotent that it would be "an admission that he had been thwarted by a mere human being"*(p.149) to send even one soul to hell for all eternity and that "providence will never abandon the universe. For even if some part of it becomes very bad because the rational beings sin, He arranges to purify it, and after a time, to turn the universe back to himself."**
Of course, Origen's teachings were rejected as heretical by the early church authorities. Charles Freeman (the author of the book cited below) argues that it is because they undermined the need for eternal damnation and punishment as incentive for being good and that threatened the burgeoning political power structure of the early church.
*Charles Freeman, The Closing of the Western MInd: The Rise of Faith and the Fall of Reason, 2002
**Origen Contra Celsum 4:99

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Archer Opteryx, posted 08-18-2006 5:02 PM Archer Opteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by Archer Opteryx, posted 09-22-2006 7:16 AM Jaderis has replied

  
Jaderis
Member (Idle past 3456 days)
Posts: 622
From: NY,NY
Joined: 06-16-2006


Message 127 of 234 (351475)
09-22-2006 8:19 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by Archer Opteryx
09-22-2006 7:16 AM


Re: Origen of Alexandria
Many thanks for sharing this. Fascinating. I look forward to taking a look at Freeman's book
My pleasure It is quite an interesting and quick read. I purchased it along with Sam Harris' The End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason in order to read them consecutively and put together the pieces (if any) of history repeating itself. I am almost done with Freeman's book and plan on starting Harris' this weekend.
Origen would be a 'universalist', then, if I understand that term correctly.
Correct. Some might argue that Universalists believe that no souls go to hell at all or that hell does not even exist, but the main theme is ultimate reconciliation with God which can imply wicked souls going to hell until that time that God returns the universe back to its original state and, thus, returning all souls back to Him because they were once a part of and equal to Him. This comes from Origen (at least in Christian thought...there are others who believed something similar. See Apokatastasis which is most likely what influenced Origen's thoughts in the first place).
That is to my knowledge the only time the possibility of Satan's redemption has been entertained seriously in Christian history. Anyone know of any others?
Are you referring to Origen or to Universalism? If Origen, that is incorrect. The apokatastasis link above mentions a few other early theologians who taught reconciliation. If the Universalists, then, yes, I believe that they are the only denominations (but probably not the only individual Christians) who believe in the ultimate redemption of all souls.
In Paradise Lost Milton's Satan famously says that it is better to rule in hell than to serve in heaven. I don't recall the exact context. Had Milton's God just given him a chance to enter heaven?
That's an interesting question and one I am not prepared to answer since I last read Paradise Lost about 12 years ago. Does anyone else know the context?
*adds PL to reading list*

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