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Author Topic:   how can any one religion make a valid claim to be the fundamental truth?
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5939 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 162 of 302 (179811)
01-22-2005 10:30 PM
Reply to: Message 161 by riVeRraT
01-22-2005 10:22 PM


Re: Truth again
riVeRrat
The bible is the guide to finding the truth. If you learn it from the wrong source, or do not take the time to understand the whole thing, and then make the comparison to real life, then you are short changing yourself, and will never have all the pieces of the puzzle, to see the final picture.
Oh I see. Only the bible has the truth eh? So there is no way you could be wrong in your assertion right? What is it you assume that makes such things correct?Perhaps it has truth in your opinion that another would find untrue,thus it is only your determination to have it so that makes it so for you.
What if you have merely deluded yourself and are wrong in your assesment?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 161 by riVeRraT, posted 01-22-2005 10:22 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 176 by riVeRraT, posted 01-23-2005 9:51 AM sidelined has replied

sidelined
Member (Idle past 5939 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 198 of 302 (179976)
01-23-2005 3:59 PM
Reply to: Message 176 by riVeRraT
01-23-2005 9:51 AM


Re: Truth again
riVeRrat
What truth? What do you consider true that is not based upon your opinion of such?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by riVeRraT, posted 01-23-2005 9:51 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 209 by riVeRraT, posted 01-24-2005 6:16 AM sidelined has replied

sidelined
Member (Idle past 5939 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 230 of 302 (180320)
01-24-2005 7:47 PM
Reply to: Message 209 by riVeRraT
01-24-2005 6:16 AM


Re: Truth again
If god existed truth would be as needing of evidential standards as it is without him.Omnipotence does not have to automatically equate to being free of deceit.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by riVeRraT, posted 01-24-2005 6:16 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 233 by riVeRraT, posted 01-25-2005 8:40 AM sidelined has replied

sidelined
Member (Idle past 5939 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 240 of 302 (180601)
01-25-2005 8:25 PM
Reply to: Message 233 by riVeRraT
01-25-2005 8:40 AM


Re: Truth again
riVeRrat
sidelined writes:
If god existed truth would be as needing of evidential standards as it is without him.
Right, and the bible shows us how.
But the evidence is poor to non-existent. There is little agreement across the spectrum of people who believe the bible just what the meaning behind it is.The morals that it supposedly outlines are free to interpretation as each sees fit and the range of standards for what constitutes a right action in a given situation is dependant on what the individual wishes to draw his arguement from.
sidelined writes:
Omnipotence does not have to automatically equate to being free of deceit.
That goes against what the bible teaches us. It also seems highly unlikely. I can't picture God to be a liar, that would really mess things up now wouldn't it?
It is a part of his nature since we are made in his image according to the bible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 233 by riVeRraT, posted 01-25-2005 8:40 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 245 by riVeRraT, posted 01-26-2005 12:03 AM sidelined has not replied

sidelined
Member (Idle past 5939 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 277 of 302 (181607)
01-29-2005 7:37 AM
Reply to: Message 274 by riVeRraT
01-29-2005 7:15 AM


Re: I think you are approaching a very important point...
riVeRrat
Well if your Christian, and you initiate the battle, then your not really being Christian are you? Christian's should technically be able to co-exist with all other religions. It's when your religion starts telling you to kill all others who don't believe in it, there is a problem.
Tell me, you think there is truth in that?
It kind of depends on how you wish to view the actions of your god as he commands the people under him to participate in what would today be labeled ethnic cleansing and war crime.
Deu 13:4 Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.
Deu 13:5 And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn [you] away from the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.
Deu 13:6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which [is] as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;
Deu 13:7 [Namely], of the gods of the people which [are] round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the [one] end of the earth even unto the [other] end of the earth;
Deu 13:8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:
Deu 13:9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.
Deu 13:10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
Deu 13:11 And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you.
Deu 13:12 If thou shalt hear [say] in one of thy cities, which the LORD thy God hath given thee to dwell there, saying,
Deu 13:13 [Certain] men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known;
Deu 13:14 Then shalt thou enquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, [if it be] truth, [and] the thing certain, [that] such abomination is wrought among you;
Deu 13:15 Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that [is] therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword.
Deu 13:16 And thou shalt gather all the spoil of it into the midst of the street thereof, and shalt burn with fire the city, and all the spoil thereof every whit, for the LORD thy God: and it shall be an heap for ever; it shall not be built again.
Deu 13:17 And there shall cleave nought of the cursed thing to thine hand: that the LORD may turn from the fierceness of his anger, and shew thee mercy, and have compassion upon thee, and multiply thee, as he hath sworn unto thy fathers;
Deu 13:18 When thou shalt hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep all his commandments which I command thee this day, to do [that which is] right in the eyes of the LORD thy God
God has no problem with other religions.It is a simple matter to have his believers just smite them

This message is a reply to:
 Message 274 by riVeRraT, posted 01-29-2005 7:15 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 284 by riVeRraT, posted 01-29-2005 5:29 PM sidelined has replied

sidelined
Member (Idle past 5939 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 293 of 302 (181727)
01-29-2005 9:37 PM
Reply to: Message 284 by riVeRraT
01-29-2005 5:29 PM


Re: I think you are approaching a very important point...
riVeRrat
Mat 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
Seems Jesus is up for a fight also.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 284 by riVeRraT, posted 01-29-2005 5:29 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 297 by riVeRraT, posted 01-30-2005 7:09 AM sidelined has replied

sidelined
Member (Idle past 5939 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 301 of 302 (181838)
01-30-2005 12:35 PM
Reply to: Message 297 by riVeRraT
01-30-2005 7:09 AM


Re: I think you are approaching a very important point...
riVeRrat
Certainly.Jesus is here sending his disciples out to preach the word of redemption and they have been given the power to heal.Jesus is descibiing that the price of following him is to show a greater love for him than for all else.It is Jesus who is the way to god.Any who refuse him shall suffer torment and death in hell.H
He also descibes the ridicule and persecution that they will suffer{Duh!} while trying to save people through these ministries.
As Jesus staes here,
Mat 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
he is a megalomaniac that has deluded himself and now seeks to have his followers do the same. It is classic cult leader behavior old man.The only way he can empower himself is through threatening others,and thus is a fool to be avoided.Just as Jim Jones instituted control to solidify his power Jesus is here playing on gullible peoples fears and demanding absolute obedience.
It is despicable behavior from a man not right in the head,no more no less.
If we are to continue a thread discussing this we must open a topic on it since this has reached a 300 post mark and will be shut down.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 297 by riVeRraT, posted 01-30-2005 7:09 AM riVeRraT has not replied

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