RESURRECTION : THE EVIDENCE (+ Apostolic Martyrdom considerations)

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You arbitrarily equate miracle to be synonymous with myth.
In other words, your brain is closed to even considering whether a miracle has or could happen.

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But isn't your brain closed to miracles, too?I mean, you probably do not accept any of the miraculous events reported in Hindu, Native American, or Wiccan tradition as "real", right?Correct me if I'm wrong, but you would tend to disbelieve that Vishnu, or a tree or rock spirit, or the Goddess was the cause of any miracle, correct?

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Once again, there are only TWO possible sources of miracle : God or Satan.

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Except that the Native American people don't believe that God or Satan do anything; they think that the rock or tree spirits are responsible. Their traditions are very clear on this.The Hindus don't believe that God or Satan are responsible for anything, either; they believe that Vishnu, Krishna, Lakshmi, or another god in the Hindu pantheon is responsible. The Gita is very clear on this (and predates the Bible, I might add).Since it's just your opinion against theirs regarding which god(s), God, or spirits are responsible for certain events, how do I know who is right?

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Secondly, you claim that the event had witnesses. In modern courts, eyewitness testimony is always considered suspect without corraborating evidence, since it has been shown repeatadly in controlled experiments to be unreliable. Now, in the case of the bible, recountings of the ressurection were written decades afterwards. The dramatic distance of time from the event inherantly increases the unrealiablity of the recountings.

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That's why we have things called "statutes of limitation".

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IF Jesus rose, then this validates everything else He said to be true.

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Really? Why?

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Jesus predicted His death and resurrection, and guess what, IF it is true then Jesus is the most remarkable figure in all of history.

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No, the Bible says that Jesus predicted his own death and resurrection.You can't use parts of the Bible to validate other parts of the Bible.Your "if" is an enormous one.

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Included in everything else He said was His validation of the Septuagint, which, of course, contained Genesis. The Bible clearly reveals that there are only two sources - God or Satan.

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...so you keep repeating instead of answering my question:Since the proponents of every other religion have only personal opinion as "proof", then which one do I believe?

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What about those Natives you mentioned ? Unless they can prove their god is alive then one can only speculate as to the origin.

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Well, right. They can't prove it, and neither can you.That's my point.

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There are witch doctors in Haiti and Africa that can do things that would disturb your mind - they admit their source.

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Yes, and people used to think that schizophrenia was demon posession, too.Hey, maybe you still do?

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The supernatural exists and the Bible is the best source to explain it.

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What a lovely bald assertion!You still haven't explained to me WHY the Bible is the best source to explain the supernatural.

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Can anyone produce one single shred of evidence of any kind that indicates the apostles/disciples did not die horribly for the witness of Jesus ?

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Can anyone produce one single shred of evidence of any kind that indicates the apostles/disciples did not whistle "Dixie" at the crucifiction for the witness of Jesus?I surely CAN'T provide one single shred of evidence of any kind that indicates that they did not whistle "Dixie" at the crucifiction.That must mean that they DID whistle "Dixie" at the crucifiction, right?[This message has been edited by schrafinator, 03-11-2004]

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Cannot anyone acknowledge that in a debate forum not one person could post one piece of evidence contradicting martyrdom ?

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Sure, we have certainly acknowledged that, over and over again.So what?I have also acknowledged that there is not a single shred of evidence contradicting the idea that the Apostled whistled "dixie" at the crucifiction.That must mean that, in fact, the Apostles DID whistle "Dixie" at the crucifiction, right?See how stupid and illogical this is?

What I want to know is why we think we know when Jesus was crucified because the Gospels acconts contradict each other.The first three accounts report the Last Supper as a Passover meal, yet John's account has Jesus being dead before Passover begins.Which one is it?