EvC Forum: Who to believe , Ham or Ross?

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Topic: Who to believe , Ham or Ross?

Nighttrain

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Posts: 1512

From: brisbane,australia

Joined: 06-08-2004

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Message 108 of 223 (195573)
03-30-2005 9:58 PM

Reply to: Message 107 by Faith
03-30-2005 9:40 PM

Re: What this thread is about

I would simply suggest to the partial-Bible-accepting creationists (or evolutionists as the case may be) that if you don't take it as written, then you are forced to trust your own fallible judgments on whatever portions you reject. Why would you put your own judgments above those of the people who were there at the time and reported on what they witnessed? And considering that no two of you agree on these things, what makes YOUR personal judgment better than THEIRS?

But what evidence do you have that they were there at the time? That they were truly witnesses? That they really reported what they saw? That they even existed?

This message is a reply to:
	Message 107 by Faith, posted 03-30-2005 9:40 PM		Faith has replied

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	Message 111 by Faith, posted 03-30-2005 10:27 PM		Nighttrain has replied

Nighttrain

Member (Idle past 4024 days)

Posts: 1512

From: brisbane,australia

Joined: 06-08-2004

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Message 118 of 223 (195608)
03-31-2005 12:13 AM

Reply to: Message 111 by Faith
03-30-2005 10:27 PM

Re: What this thread is about

Well, there it is, the proof that the Deconstructionists have destroyed all truth and reality. Wow. They've done their work well. You need material evidence, material proof for everything. No longer is anyone taught how to judge the integrity of a report.

I can tell they're honest men and I can tell they are real human beings and nobody's fiction. If you can't tell it, I'm sorry, really sorry. Nothing else to say.

Now this IS something C.S. Lewis wrote well about. Ask him why you should trust these reports. He knows the difference between fact and fiction.

Pray tell how you personally judge the integrity of a report?

Who are these honest men? Offering their virgin daughters to strangers? Killing children? Existing in a vacuum because we can`t find any 'evidence' that they ever existed?

C.S.Lewis once said (roughly) 'I have read thousands of works of narrative and that`s one thing you can say about the Bible, it`s narrative'. The only question to settle is whether it`s fictional narrative or non-fictional. But that deserves a thread of its own.

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	Message 111 by Faith, posted 03-30-2005 10:27 PM		Faith has not replied

Nighttrain

Member (Idle past 4024 days)

Posts: 1512

From: brisbane,australia

Joined: 06-08-2004

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Message 142 of 223 (195924)
04-01-2005 1:26 AM

Reply to: Message 140 by Faith
04-01-2005 12:37 AM

Re: Eye Witnesses

Here's a website on the subject

Ah, slow death by website. Don`t know if you have access to a library or not, Faith, but you would be far better off getting back to basics than accepting the bias of a website.

Shall I ask you to prove any of that? It's all typical revisionist guesswork treated as fact, just as the unprovable guesswork of evolutionism is treated as fact. They sit around and destroy the truth. To what purpose I wonder. Oh well. Enjoy your delusion.

Study the scriptures against each other from the sources. Find out that the Septuagint (LXX) doesn`t agree with the Masoretic Text (MT). Then read of the grand discovery of the Qumran Scrolls (DSS)(the oldest extant copies we have of the OT)and the revelation that their scriptures sometimes agree with LXX, sometimes with MT, and often with neither. Then tell me you have the unvarnished truth. Study the decision of the Southern Congregations of the Church of England to revise the KJV because of the errors and contradictions therein, leading to the Westcott-Hort revision that has spawned a variety of modern bibles. The fortunes of the scriptures make a fascinating journey. Try it. You might enjoy it.

This message is a reply to:
	Message 140 by Faith, posted 04-01-2005 12:37 AM		Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 143 by Faith, posted 04-01-2005 2:11 AM		Nighttrain has replied

Nighttrain

Member (Idle past 4024 days)

Posts: 1512

From: brisbane,australia

Joined: 06-08-2004

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Message 145 of 223 (195945)
04-01-2005 2:49 AM

Reply to: Message 143 by Faith
04-01-2005 2:11 AM

Re: Eye Witnesses

Then if you have read up on the WHOLE translations, you will know about the classic arguments between W-H and John Burgon?

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	Message 143 by Faith, posted 04-01-2005 2:11 AM		Faith has not replied

Nighttrain

Member (Idle past 4024 days)

Posts: 1512

From: brisbane,australia

Joined: 06-08-2004

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Message 149 of 223 (195989)
04-01-2005 8:02 AM

Reply to: Message 143 by Faith
04-01-2005 2:11 AM

Re: Eye Witnesses

I've read up on the whole translations history, contrary to your rude assumptions that I haven't. I have arrived at different conclusions than you have. What you consider to be major differences are minor differences. The Septuagint was apparently the version quoted from by the New Testament. The differences are minor. Why do you use expressions like "unvarnished truth" as someone else used "exact?" The MEANINGS are the same, the HISTORY is not altered, minor terms are different. BIG DEAL.

Interesting. what`s your take on the pesher technique?

This message is a reply to:
	Message 143 by Faith, posted 04-01-2005 2:11 AM		Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 151 by Faith, posted 04-04-2005 11:05 PM		Nighttrain has replied

Nighttrain

Member (Idle past 4024 days)

Posts: 1512

From: brisbane,australia

Joined: 06-08-2004

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Message 162 of 223 (196853)
04-05-2005 4:56 AM

Reply to: Message 151 by Faith
04-04-2005 11:05 PM

Re: Eye Witnesses

Interesting. what`s your take on the pesher technique?

I believe the Bible as it presents itself just as all true believers have for millennia, and let the scholars entertain themselves with their silly theories.

Well, when you were reading the 'whole translations history' (message 143), you must have covered the Qumran Scrolls (DSS). Happen to notice the translations covering the pesharim? That came from the scrolls, not from some pesky scholar with pet theories. Since Christians laud the DSS as confirming the Bible, guess we will have to pick and choose what parts we use to reinforce our beliefs. Kinda like the 9000--34,000 different Christian groupings.

Religions of the world: numbers of adherents; growth rates

Edited to up the numbers

This message has been edited by Nighttrain, 04-05-2005 04:47 AM

This message is a reply to:
	Message 151 by Faith, posted 04-04-2005 11:05 PM		Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 163 by Faith, posted 04-05-2005 9:56 AM		Nighttrain has not replied

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