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Author Topic:   Believing in God, But Not Literally
Hangdawg13
Member (Idle past 781 days)
Posts: 1189
From: Texas
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 3 of 59 (173431)
01-03-2005 12:45 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by GreyOwl
01-03-2005 11:46 AM


I've read God's Debris, and I thought it was a very interesting read.
I think he is partly right to say that the majority of people who believe to dot act accordingly and that if they really did believe their entire life would be devoted to serving God and obeying Him. Jesus said, "if you love me, obey my commands."
He also said, "Many will come to me saying, 'Lord, Lord, we healed and cast out demons in your name', and I will say, 'away from me, you evil doers. I do not know you'" Seems like it will be the case at the end that many who believed symbolically as you say did not give their entire lives in faith. Perhaps Jesus is speaking here about the televangelists. I don't know.
If everyone who claims to be a Christian obeyed Christ's commands as best they were able, there would be no more orphans or uncared for widows or hunger crisis.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by GreyOwl, posted 01-03-2005 11:46 AM GreyOwl has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by GreyOwl, posted 01-03-2005 2:45 PM Hangdawg13 has replied
 Message 6 by jar, posted 01-03-2005 9:19 PM Hangdawg13 has not replied

  
Hangdawg13
Member (Idle past 781 days)
Posts: 1189
From: Texas
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 5 of 59 (173563)
01-03-2005 8:16 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by GreyOwl
01-03-2005 2:45 PM


This I somewhat disagree with.
If a believer automatically assumes the other person is crazy or deluded, then they assume miracles do not occur, and I wonder how much they really believe in Christ's ressurrection.
On the other hand, I have a friend who has told me of things God has shown him and said to him, and it was very odd at first. But I think this is natural. Humans just can't identify with an experience they've never had.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by GreyOwl, posted 01-03-2005 2:45 PM GreyOwl has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by GreyOwl, posted 01-03-2005 9:56 PM Hangdawg13 has replied

  
Hangdawg13
Member (Idle past 781 days)
Posts: 1189
From: Texas
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 17 of 59 (173763)
01-04-2005 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by GreyOwl
01-03-2005 9:56 PM


Thanks for your reply.
If I believe in God, and believe he has spoken to people in the past (according to the Bible), then why would I think it strange if he also spoke to some guy I just met? If I believe that my wife exists, it wouldn't seem odd to me that she speaks to me. If I believe that my dog exists, it doesn't seem odd when she barks.
Well, you see your wife every day and your dog barks all the time, but miracles are a little more special. I live across town from a chemical plant that has the potential to blow up. I realize it could blow up, but I would still be a little shocked if it actually did. I know Jackson Hole Wyoming is a beautiful place, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't be awed when I got there and saw it for myself. I believe God can perform miracles, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't be amazed if he performed a big one right now.
Now there is an idea out there that miracles, healing, tounges, knowledge, discerning spirits, etc. were gifts that were taken away after the church got its footing (my previous pastor taught this), but I see no scriptural basis for this. So some people may have been taught that these things do not happen today, but I am learning of more honest Christians who have had these gifts even today.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by GreyOwl, posted 01-03-2005 9:56 PM GreyOwl has replied

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Hangdawg13
Member (Idle past 781 days)
Posts: 1189
From: Texas
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 18 of 59 (173765)
01-04-2005 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by GreyOwl
01-03-2005 9:59 PM


I agree it's more what you do and not what you say. But what about the people that say they believe but don't act accordingly? I don't think they're all evil, nor are they all too stupid to understand the consequences of acting the way they do. So what does that really leave? Does it make sense to say that they must not really believe as much as they say they do?
No, I think it says they are human. Humans have the ability to cover up information and illuminate it when they want to. Obviously we are not perfect and cannot live up to Christ's commands completely, but that's why he came: to show mercy. Every time someone asked Christ what a person must do to be saved, he gave them a different answer. He reminds us that all things are possible with God, but that we must seek to enter by the narrow gate. I think only God can judge where a person's heart is even if their mind is somewhat confused.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by GreyOwl, posted 01-03-2005 9:59 PM GreyOwl has not replied

  
Hangdawg13
Member (Idle past 781 days)
Posts: 1189
From: Texas
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 32 of 59 (174105)
01-05-2005 12:35 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by GreyOwl
01-04-2005 6:57 PM


Re: Vast differences in opinions?
What you say would explain why the phenomenon I mentioned occurs, but doesn't it still seem a bit odd? What else does ANYONE believe the existance of and yet has to constantly remind themselves that they do or constantly ask themselves why they believe it exists? Who knows, maybe there are other such things and I'm missing them...
At school I have to constantly remind myself why I am doing all this crap; because I believe someday it will pay off. I've never been in love very long, but I imagine that after 10 years of marriage a husband and wife may be tempted in various directions, and they must remind themselves of their devotion and vows to the other person. It is the same way with God.
I agree with Robin and Asgara. There is not just believing and unbelieving; there is a spectrum between the two. I think that where the person's desire lies is more important than what their mind has actually accepted as truth. In Mark, "The Child's father in tears cried out to Jesus, 'I believe, help my unbelief!'"
So, IMO, the person who strongly desires to believe in God and obey Him, but has a mind that is filled with doubt is better off than those who have never doubted with their minds, but desire Him not.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by GreyOwl, posted 01-04-2005 6:57 PM GreyOwl has not replied

  
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