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Author | Topic: What is Your Worldview? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
contracycle Inactive Member |
quote: No indeed. But that is at least a clearer and more honest position than calling some violence terrorism, and then doing the same thing and calling it OK. I mean its kinda ironic - in line with Hambre's remarks about HangDawgs avatar - that aerial bombing was the tool of choice in the first half of the last century for dealing with "primitive" populations precisely because it induced such terror.
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contracycle Inactive Member |
quote: Quite true. On the other hand, as long as we use an ineffable, invisible, untestable premise for our decisions they simply cannot be reliable. I agree that religion or doctrine is seldom causative of violence; but it provides a rationale, an excuse for violence. After all, violence matters less to theists who believe in life after death; it is my experience that theists generally find violence more acceptable more easily than atheists.
quote: Bullshit. If you really believe that, don't use them. Go back to fighting with your bare hands and teeth.
quote: But Jesus is supposedly great in part becuase he did not kill. Have you not been instructed to turn the other cheek? Did God not command 'Thou Shalt Not Kill'? Are you really a christian, HangDawg, or just pretending to be one?
quote: No, they are terrorists and murderous scum. Just yesterday these "heroes" bombed a residential area of Fallujah and killed 9 children. Jets don't kill children, pilots kill children, eh HangDawg?
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contracycle Inactive Member |
quote: This in response to whether or not god gave an injunction against killing. Please explain.
quote: I know exactly what it means - it means to be a murderous hypocrite.
quote: Don't be absurd - your murderers have made no-one free, they bring only oppression and terror.
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contracycle Inactive Member |
Your political compass:
Economic Left/Right: -8.88 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.69 I've taken this test about 8 times, I'm always in the lower left. Unsurprising to me, but often suprising to people who buy into the comic-book tale that communism = big government.
quote: Right. But in practice, as is almost always the case, religion supports the government of the day. HangDawgs belief in a non-existant god is much the same phenmonon as his support for a murderous aggressor state due to the delusion that it is "free.
quote: Careful - there is no GOVERNMENT described here; the only institution mentioned is the temple courts. What is being decsribed is the free association of producers engaged in the exchange of their produce. Yet, that is very much the social model I advocate, but I hasten to point this conception is NOT unique to christinaity or the bible; the Ulster cycle of legends, for example, describes the mythical Land of the Young as a place in which "no-one spoke of mine or thine". That is, IMO, free exhcange, the free market of produces, is the autocthonous mode of production of humans, and institutions like religion are used to justify rulership, theft, and expropriation.
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contracycle Inactive Member |
quote: I'll take tyou up on that, then. Will you protect me from the US, will you rise up and overthrow the tyrannical regime that rains death from the skie on so many countries? Will you stand with me on the barricades in defence of freedom against rulership, against theft, against the oppression of capitalism and the West? Well?
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contracycle Inactive Member |
quote: Of course, Dawg - I most certainly do call for the defanging of the USA, and am a member of a organisation that acvtively seeks to overthrow western capitalism and its aggressor states, by violence if necessary.
quote: Of course it does - becuase you are an ignorant buffoon comfortable beleiving the popular and conventional wisdoms that surround you, unable to think outsiode the box or develop any sort of moral analysis of your own. Hence, the assumptions and ad hominems to which you easily leap, a short hop to the use of violence against me given how "irrational" I must be.
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contracycle Inactive Member |
quote: I see, so you are not any sort of christian at all. Or at least, only the kind that proves that christianity is a religion of hatred and violence.
quote: I've never claimed to be a pacifist, in fact I have argued pacifism is a pathology. But never mind - after all, your position is not based on thinking about the argument - you just believe what you are told to believe.
quote: Baloney - I have fought in demos. But my primary methodology is not violent not because of moral concerns, but becuase of efficiency concerns. Once again we see the alleged christian, the alleged follower of a doctrine of peace and love, casting stones at those who criticise routione state coercion by violence. As IO have argued before, christinaity is mostly about being a Good Citizen, and Dawg, like a Good Citizen, believes what his state tells him without doubt, and actively desires to be a murderer and bullet-catcher for the state. Christianity is a religion of hate and violence - as in fact are ALL the religions of the book. And christians, as I remarked earlier, share one abiding consistent feature: murderous hypocrisy.
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contracycle Inactive Member |
(Instrumental)
(Switch Channels)[Alf Razzell:] "Two things that have haunted me most are the days when I had to collect the paybooks; and when I left Bill Hubbard in no-man's-land." "I was picked up and taken into their trench. And I'd no sooner takentwo or three steps down the trench when I heard a call, 'Hello Razz, I'm glad to see you. This is my second night here,' and he said 'I'm feeling bad,' and it was Bill Hubbard, one of the men we'd trained in England, one of the original battalion. I had a look at his wound, rolled him over; I could see it was probably a fatal wound. You could imagine what pain he was in, he was dripping with sweat; and after I'd gone about three shellholes, traversed that, had it been...had there been a path or a road I could have done better. He pummeled me, 'Put me down, put me down, I'd rather die, I'd rather die, put me down.' I was hoping he would faint. He said 'I can't go any further, let me die.' I said 'If I leave you here Bill you won't be found, let's have another go.' He said 'All right then.' And the same thing happened; he couldn't stand it any more, and I had to leave him there, in no-man's-land." (Switch channels) (Girl) "I don't mind about the war, that's one of the things I like to watch, if it's a war going on, 'cause then I know if our side's winning, if our side's losing..." (Switch channels)
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contracycle Inactive Member |
quote: Thats just nonsense, phatboy - those states are pouring wrealth into the USA. If the USA disapeared in a puff of smoke tomorrow, the world would be better off. Europe has already replaced the US as the buyer of last resort - Amricas influence is almost exclusively military these days, and that only by having being the most militarisitic of OECD states and spending the greatest proportion of GDP on arms. Further, your commentary on the introduction of capitalism and problems of capitalism et al are straight out of the McCarthy textbooks and I can only recommend you do some real reading.
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contracycle Inactive Member |
quote: It has been, and it is. But Dawg, your patriotism blinds you to the truth: it is America that fights for money, that invades in the name of Mammon, and that is the same state you proclaim you would proudly serve. You are either a hypocrite or a fool.
quote: No, you are not. A peacelover does not argue for war - they argue for peace. You are a war-lover.
quote: That is exactly like the speech of any Imperialist. People must be conquered and subjefcted in the name of "freedom". Yet more hypocrisy.
quote: Their personal delusions are irrelevant - whatever moralistic apologetics they offer for being agents of imperialism and occupying powers, the evil of their actions does not go away.
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contracycle Inactive Member |
quote: Fox News and the History Channel have read it for you, don't worry.
quote: I don't have loyalty to anything much. States are coercive, religions are lies. I am an atheist and a marxist, and if anything my operational principles are those of Lenin: "distrust the bourgeoisie, control your leaders, and rely on your revolutionary strength".
quote: My own.
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contracycle Inactive Member |
quote: I refuse to answer such a loaded question; its off topic anyway. I do not enviusion any form of Utopian society, I envision a pragmatic one. Thats the whole point - to get away from the Utopianism of theistically-based systems and into something arrived at rationally, from a materialist basis.
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contracycle Inactive Member |
quote: 1 The arrogation of private property, seen both in the gift of the world to Adam to own and to take dominion of, and in the 10 commandments injunction not to covet they neighbours ox.2 The construction of normative heirarchies possessed of social authority not commensurate with the actual services performed in that role. That is: the economic analysis that capitalism employs is not theistic in its nature, but does include theistic assumptions. Eliminating these theistic assumptions eliminates the bulk of the apparent logic of capitalism. Atheist materialism is inherent to the communist analysis; in fact I go so far as to say it is the first non-theistic economic system yet proposed in human history.
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contracycle Inactive Member |
quote: Who proposed a system without leaders? Not Lenins statement I quoted, CONTROL your leaders... there must be leaders for them to be subordinated to the mass. So, what are you talking about?
quote: I know, thats why Capitalism is doomed. Therre are far too many erroneous presumptions in the rest of the post. Phatboy, I don't know what you are talking about: why do you interpret the proposition that people should be free from capitalist heirarchy and coercion as placing them on a spartan diet? I'm saying the capitalist diet isn't good enough and that we can have better - why do you think human nature would NOT want better?
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contracycle Inactive Member |
quote: For exactly the same reason that the defeat of Fascist Germany made the world a better place.
quote: No - America fights for capitalism against freedom and democracy. That is why it conquored and occupied Iraq.
quote: So capitalist propagandists claim, but its rather falsified by the welth of for example Saudi Arabia, which is most certainly not free. Its a cheap-and-easy soundbite for those who want rationalisations.
quote: "Robbery, butchery, rape they misname empire: they make a wasteland and call it peace." - Tacitus
quote: Actually, I think history comprehensively demonstrates that war is in the service of elites, and is a large scale protection racket run by criminals for criminals.
quote: And yet that is always an excuse for the subjugation of a people. That is, the "evil" of Saddam was nominally the cause, but the people of Iraq suffered as proxies for Saddam. Saddam is alive, but the people of Iraq are under the American jackboot. If that is were objective, America would now leave - but that is not Americas objective. Its oil.
quote: Pay attention; I grew up amidst a revolution and my freinds and acquaintances were casualties and combatants; your privilieged and comfortable distance from the realities of war is what leads you to see it in such moralistic rather than pragmatic terms, as was pointed out above.
quote: There is no evidence at all for America spreading democracy; there is a great deal of evidence for America being an imperialist power, namely the vast number of foreign military interventions it carries out. America has a track record for supporting dictatiors - like Saddam - as regional or economic allies. America is an enemy of democracy and freedom around the globe.
quote: I'm already a member of a group that is technically terroirist becuase it does not renounce violence in pursuit of its political objectives. My methodology is demonstration and mass movement; but I will support those who resist American imperialism.
quote: A) thats a stupid analogy becuase you don;t just kill the one guy - he's still alive remember, over 11000 Iraqis are deadb) America has NEVER done such a thing and never will, its entirely against the grain of American foreign and economic policy c) This just indicates again that you are not thinking, just emoting. You are resorting to an abst5ract princioplke instead of the reality of dropping bombs on urban areas, of national pride and resistance. quote: Ha ha ha - this after giving me a kiddies colouring book version of the occupation of Iraq. Lets look at reality, Dawg - Iraq is occupied, its people are not free, and its assets have been looted by the US. The US managed to spend ALL the money in the UN-oil for food oprogramme, but has only managed to spend 2% of the money voted by congress for reconstruction becuase of "instability". The occupation of Iraq is a ordinary, historically normal, conquest by an Imperial power. As one commmentator at the RNC remarked, first they had the chorus girls singing the marine anthem, with its "from the halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli" and the very next speaker claimed "we are not an imperialist nation". It would be funny if this serious delusion were not so dangerous to the rest of us. {Fixed 1 quote box - AM} This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 09-08-2004 09:13 AM
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