Lesbian Archers for Rei

I combed through all of the extra portraits I have downloaded for NWN (~205) and it wasn't in there, though there are plenty more.You appear to be just ahead of me and my gf in the game... maybe we'll race through this weekend just to get ahead of you.Thanks for the info on Baldur's Gate. I'll stick with the free expansions for NWN. I already play some of the individual scenarios by myself (the major campaign I stick with my gf on). One of the more interesting (though just for kicks), if you haven't found it yet, is a porn adventure where you play a 20th level female wizard (or sorceror I forget) who is living in a castle with her friend, a dragon, that is filled with servants you can have sex with, and who must get out of her castle and win a contest in town.In fact the name of the game is to have sex with as many people as possible while trying to accomplish your missions, which often involve having sex. They use full nudity for women, and try to for the guys (though it fails to be as accurate). My only major complaint is it uses the same NWN campaign trick of cutting to black for most of the sex. The use of sound effects and the cleverness of the dialogue make it interesting though.It was actually created by a girl who was sick of women getting the short end of the stick when it came to sexy stuff in NWN. That's why she made the main character a female who is using all the guys.Sorry for the off topic stuff... but NWN is pretty cool.------------------
holmes[This message has been edited by holmes, 12-05-2003]

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No, that's fine with me. I understood what you meant. What I don't see is an answer to my question.

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I wanted to make sure we had this cleared up before I answered. The key is here:

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That's highly contrary to my own experience with women who match your description except for the "not as costume" part.

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Of course I don't personally have experience with the women wearing armor and fighting in direct combat. However, we have the historical record (which shows that, while some straight women in the supplied context did take up the sword, a good portion if not the majority of them were, to put it lightly, "at least" asexual). We have the present day to look at, where lesbians are in much higher proportions in the armed forces, especially in career roles, and furthermore increased in more combat-related roles - *despite* the policy of "Don't ask, Don't tell" (which requires them to conceal their partners - no easy feat) and the previous policy of "No.". Consequently, I take this, add them to the perceived choice of non-feminine armor, etc, and end up with good odds that she's a lesbian.

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Did you ask the woman in the picture? Did you ask anybody who asked the woman in the picture? If I had judged the sexuality of the team from their yearbook picture, I'd be as bad as you. Instead I'm judging them by their own statements on their sexuality and their own reported sexual behavior.

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But that's not what you did - you asked a small group (One? You still haven't stated the number, which makes me suspect that it was just your wife) to offer their uneducated assessment of women in hockey, based on their perceived features - at least, if your previous statements as to what you asked is true. Do you deny this?In short, I would like either a retraction of your statements about women in hockey, or a further elaboration of your methodology (i.e., who you asked, what you asked them, and how they responded) and why it is somehow not based on merely the opinions of people who have little to no experience with the gay community and a distorted sample selection. Otherwise, you're going to keep seeming like a hypocrite, judging me for using a methodology that you yourself used in a worse manner.

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I think so... are you talking about stuff like Masamune Shirow's Interon Depot? Or something else?

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To the best of my knowlege, Intron Depot is only an artbook, not an anime as well. However, the quality of the artwork (from what I have seen from screenshots online) is not particularly impressive as far as artbooks go, and is more to the type of quality you'd find in manga. A good example of anime artbooks is the "X" artbook, based on the movie (and later series) by CLAMP. Serial Experiments Lain has a very good artbook ("Visual Experiments Lain"), as does Evangelion (several, actually), and a number of other series. Typically, an artbook from an anime contains any and all of the following: Screenshots from some of the most detailed scenes (or images from posters, box covers, wall scrolls, etc); conceptual/design drawings; and a lot of original, high-quality art pieces of the kind you see in that avatar that relate (with varying degrees of directness) to the anime.

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Wait a minute... you fault *me* for coming to the conclusion that she is "likely" a lesbian based on a number of factors, and you base your conclusion that she is an elf( which you stated unambiguously "Are you kidding? She's an elf!"), on your view that "Her armor looks elvish to me. It's hard to tell without seeing her ears"?

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1) Elves have distinct physical features unique to their race. Lesbians do not.[/quote]Which you concluded with "It's hard to tell without seing her ears", and yet earlier, matter-of-factly stated "Are you kidding? She's an elf!". What physical features convinced you that she was an elf? In fact, the only generalized "elf feature" apart from the ears that I can think of is pretty vague: Beauty (you don't typically find "ugly elves" in fantasy works that have them)2) Elves have a distinct, unique cultural style that influences their weapons and armor (among other things). Lesbians do not.First off, are you trying to claim that there is no style of dress and other appearence characteristics that lesbians, or are you deceptively limiting the category to "weapons and armor" so as to have to avoid that issue?I then ask: What "unique cultural style" is evident in this, that indicates that she is an elf?

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Elvishness is something you can judge on sight, from a picture.

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So obvious that you responded to the question as to how that you knew with, "Her armor looks elvish to me. It's hard to tell without seeing her ears."

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Lesbianism, being a behavior preference, is not.

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Lesbians *do* present differently on average. Physically, behaviorally, and socially. Not everyone is tuned into it - typically those who have little experience with the GLBT community. You may not believe it, but it is fact.

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I'll give you one more post to answer the question, after that I'm done talking to you. If you need me to repeat the question just ask.

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Was the question that you were focusing on answered above? If not, please restate.------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."[This message has been edited by Rei, 12-05-2003]

Fat chance. I've played it for 5 hours today so far, and I'll likely play all night long... and probably do the same tomorrow. Oo, let's nerd out - tell me about your characters, and I'll tell you about mine. We can both take a level in "Lesbian Archer" just to make sure we're still on topic. Unless you're from the "Don't tell me about your character" school of role playing. No prob. Do you know anything about "Temple of Elemental Evil"? It looks like another sprite-based orthagoanl game, which I detest. And it uses the new 3.5 Edition rules, which I think are a scam to get us to buy the Core Ruleset books again, at a higher price. If I might hazard a nerdy pun - "gives 'Hold Person' an entirely new meaning!" Ha!Oh, I hate myself.

Mm-hm. When I add up those factors, I get an increased chance that she's a lesbian, yes, but it's still a less-than-half chance. I realize we're adding made-up probabilities, so maybe this is something we can't agree on. Nonetheless it boggles my mind that you think there's a greater chance of that woman being gay than being straight, in any context.Furthermore the suggestion that her armor is non-feminine is very much in dispute. Her armor is very feminine, within the constraints of functionality. The graceful curves and subtle ornamentation suggest that this is armor crafted for the female body. If "feminine armor" to you means a Boris Vallejo calendar (you should google that name if you haven't already), well, we're not going to agree. I suggest that you need to expand your definition of what feminine means. Well, ok. I'm not certain that she's an elf. But just as you believe the odds are, she's gay (I assume you're not certain she's gay), I believe the odds are, she's an elf. The majority of fantasy women who wear armor like that and shoot arrows are elves, at least in the works that have them. Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realize there was a required lesbian uniform. Well, yes. It's some of the art of Shirow, who draws manga. I guess we're thinking of different things. I haven't seen any of what you're talking about, no. So, it's in the anime style? Because that picture is not. Remember we were trying to find out what that picture was from? So far we have a very likely explanation that it's from one of the many Dungeons and Dragons games. What's your suggestion? Graceful, flowing lines. Quasi-Asian ornamentation. (The shining cleanliness of her armor is indicative of being either an elf or a knight in service of a church.) Art noveau architecture. Well, I didn't say I could judge from that picture. Like I said, it's hard to tell. I imagine the artist kept it purposfully ambiguous in order for a player to use that avatar for non-elves. The ears would be the giveaway. Nonetheless, since she's wearing what elves wear, and doing what elves are most noted for doing - shooting arrows - I feel that the odds are she's an elf. No, it's a stereotype.

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Fat chance. I've played it for 5 hours today so far, and I'll likely play all night long... and probably do the same tomorrow.

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Ah, you bastard. And we lost valuable time last night watching Xmen2, and then Akira was on (talking about anime) and I had to watch that!I doubt we'll ever catch up now.

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Oo, let's nerd out - tell me about your characters, and I'll tell you about mine. We can both take a level in "Lesbian Archer" just to make sure we're still on topic.

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Well my character is a human wizard of the illusionist school of magic. I'm pretty sure I am going to stick with that class and not mingle it with anything else. I'm playing him as a guy obsessed with learning anything he can (magic wise) and killing anyone who stands in his way. I was glad to see the magical "quest" they have in the 2nd chapter fits nicely with my ends.I plan on creating another character for playing outside the campaign which I intend to mix classes. I have always hated clerics in D&D but the spells and turning power they have in NWN is so visually cool I may try that out. Otherwise I'll probably be a bard/something.To keep this all on topic my gf is a half-elf ranger who, unless she must use a sword, is an archer. I notice in the expansion sets there is something called an arcane archer. She'd probably dig that if it was available in the campaign. And my gf is bi so is disappointed her character is not allowed to have sex with other female characters. Apparently Rei is wrong in the NWN world... there simply are no gays or bis at all!Hmmmmmm... I think I'm gonna have to write Bioware about that.

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Do you know anything about "Temple of Elemental Evil"?

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I've seen a box for it, and I thought "cool" because it was the module I played and read through countless times after first getting D&D. Hell I think I can still remember the layout of the keep.I wasn't going to buy it for the same reason you mentioned. I believe someone has converted it for NWN and is in the free download area.Outside of a computer I will never play D&D. That's what I cut my teeth on, but I went on to Runequest, Top Secret (oh that'll date me), a number of superhero RPGs, and finally settled for Stormbringer and (most importantly for me) Call of Cthulhu. I love the less restrained (ie non level based) nature of Chaosium games, and the dark tones of their universes.In fact I'd probably have bought Morrowind instead of NWN because it was not D&D based, but I have a mac and so that wasn't an option.Not that I'm complainining about NWN or D&D. They are very fun to play. It's just where I see a chance to play in a less restricted environment I go for it. Actually I should admit that NWN has given me more respect for D&D, since it makes some of the arcane rules (in reallife gaming) understandable when I see how it works in the D&D world environment.

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If I might hazard a nerdy pun - "gives 'Hold Person' an entirely new meaning!" Ha!

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Don't worry, the module is filled with such puns (some pretty good). What I love more though is the range of outfits the girl has to search for and wear to accomplish her missions. Lots of skimpy armor and robes (quite stylish) with punny names.------------------
holmes

You were a fool to think you could challenge me! Ha ha! I'm playing a Ranger/Rogue/Wizard. Since I'm playing solo, and the hirelings are next to useless, I sort of have to do it all myself, I guess. And I didn't think a wizard would be able to survive solo at low levels.But I usually play rogues, generally dashing ne'er-do-wells with a tongue for wit, a hand for swordplay, and an eye for the ladies. However this time I'm actually playing as a lady. (No, she's not a lesbian, but she plays one in this thread. I haven't found that I've been able t have sex with anyone at all. Everytime I visit the whorehouses I get side quests, not sex. Well, I played through the Xbox version, and it was fun and all, but I didn't feel it was very well polished. And what's the deal with fantasy games that don't have horses? Dammit I want to mount up and ride! Why the hell do I have to walk every damn place? There hasn't been a fantasy game where you could ride a horse since Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. As you say it's a good game to cut your teeth on. And the level-based system makes it easy to stay true to a character concept, in my opinion. But if you're gaming with a bunch of really experienced gamers, I can see how it might feel like kid stuff.Have you ever heard of FUDGE? It's the Free-form Universal Do-it-yourself Gaming Engine. It has no core game mechanics except for rolling four dice, each with values from -1 to +1; and a hierarchy of success from "poor" to "extraordinary". The character sheets are blank - if your character is good at swordplay, you put that down. If he's poor at magic, you put that down. If he has "very good" strength, you put that down.When you do stuff, you roll the dice and get your level of success. It's up to the GM to determine what a "very good" swordplay roll means in-game.It's totally crazy. I suggest you look into it. There's game settings and stuff for it, but it's most fun when you make up your own - I ran a game called "Cartoon Apocalypse" where the players were minor cartoon characters inhabiting a wasteland in the aftermath of the Great War between the forces of Disney and the cultish followers of the Brothers Warner. I'll have to check that out. For some reason it's really important to me that my character look like a bad-ass. I don't know why I have this fascination with digital clothing but maybe it has something to do with the fact that my parents have degrees in costuming.

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I usually play rogues

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It's funny because I used to always like playing thieves/rogues, but now I find them kind of boring or limited for my tastes. Opening locked doors and chests is nice, not to mention disarming traps. The rest of it though, (sneak attacks, crippling strikes) isn't as thrilling to me. At least not anymore.You are right that it would be very tough to start as a wizard. Thankfully they allow you use of crossbows which gets you through the prelude (bringing you up to level 3). At that point the only real difference is you have to run away a lot (at first) to heal yourself up quickly.

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Everytime I visit the whorehouses I get side quests, not sex.

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Can't even get laid at an electronic whorehouse? How sad!There was a little bit of runaround to get a pass saying we were free of the plague, but after that it was easy enough to get a girl (or boy). The only thing that sucked is for some reason they made you act nice and talk about nonsexual stuff before they would be willing to do anything.

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Have you ever heard of FUDGE?

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No, but it sounds very familiar to another game whose name totally slips my mind right now. That one didn't even use dice.Unfortunately those are too unstructured for me. I prefer to learn a system that is set in a specific universe. That way it is entertaining to read in and of itself.BTW, I agree with you that looking cool seems to be an important part of creating a character. I don't have to look tough necessarily, just really cool. That's one thing that really sucks as a wizard... the limitations on what you can wear.------------------
holmes

Actually my character walks around in sorcerer's clothes because I like the way they look. (Of course I've got protective items out the wazoo and plenty of dodge bonuses.)

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my character walks around in sorcerer's clothes because I like the way they look.

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I guess I should have been more clear. It's not that there's no good outfits for wizards. I really like the battle mage outfit... too bad the adventurer's outfit is a little better for defense, because it is not as good looking.My problem is that there is not the RANGE of outfit options that the other characters have. Everytime I am in a store and see all the armor I'm like damn, those would have been cool to try out.I know, NWN out to have mirrors in their stores so a character can try on outfits (even the ones they can't actually wear).As far as appearances go, I am sad they aren't capable of showing robes/gauntlets/belts/boots. That would definitely have expanded the ability to look cool. I don't know if you got a cloaktower membership but I'd love to see what the cloak of stars looks like while walking (I mean strutting) around.I forgot to mention with regards to starting as a wizard... familiars! The fact that you get a familiar right off the bat makes you equal to ANYONE else. Just take a black panther and you can take on groups all by yourself. I sometimes forget (at this point I no longer need it) that that is what helped me through the first 4-5 levels.

True. Though since only about a third of my levels are in the wizard class my familiar is kind of wimpy.A mirror function would be pretty cool. Or armor stands you could put armor on. And rendering accessories would be cool, too - especially flowing stuff like cloaks or scarves.Somebody ought to write a big library of cosmetic character functions that developers could drop into any game, for us fashion-concious gamers.

Well this is getting way off topic, but when you were in Chapter 1 were you able to get into the magic academy or do anything in the graveyard? I'm just wondering if we missed out because thieves were able to get something we couldn't get, or if those parts are for later in the game.------------------
holmes

I'm not sure which magic academy you were referring to, and I don't think there was much in the graveyard, no. I doubt you missed anything. There's no door with a pickable lock that you can't bust down instead.It can't be for later in the game, though. I beat the campagn last night and you never go back to those parts of Neverwinter.

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I beat the campagn last night and you never go back to those parts of Neverwinter.

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Hominahomina...At the beginning of the weekend you were still in Chapter 2, and by the end you finished the whole thing???? Does it get easier or shorter or something?As far as the academy goes, there was a big building next to the graveyard which said something like "magic academy" or something like that. We could never pick the lock and it always said "barred from the other side". Are doors that are barred able to be bashed down? We took it to mean they were unenterable without a lever or something.There was also a second mausoleum entrance in the graveyard which we couldn't get into. Next to it was a fragment of a note that said "a wall at arms length"... we couldn't figure out what to do.I'm going to feel real stupid if we should have been more bash happy.By the way what avatar do you use for your character? and do you play online at all?------------------
holmes

Not really; I just played it for about 25 hours total. That'll usually do it. I must have missed that door. I think I encountered only one door that was barred that I could bash open - it was totally a surprise; I failed at picking it and my henchman ran up and kicked it down. Usually he tells me those doors can't be opened. You mean, which character portrait? I use the one that I would describe as "guerilla halfling", the one with the cornrows and the dark skin. Even though my character is an elf it looks a lot like her.I haven't started playing online yet, no. If it's anything like MMORPG's I'm not likely to... there's nothing I hate more than being the smallest fish in a persistent world.

Enough already! You've gone for over 50 posts now without a picture. The picture of the brass body armor back around 51 restored my faith in Linda Carter and Madonna performances. More pics!