Lesbian Archers for Rei

Suggestions for pics:
1) Women Archers on Trampoline in See-through Chainmail and Budweiser Boxer Shorts
2) Male Stableboys in Loincloths Underfoot of Armored Women Archers Wearing Spiked, Ostrich-skin Privateer Boots, Drinking Captain Morgans and Mt. Dew
3) A Woman Archer Smoking a Cigar While Sitting On Back of Bill Clinton Wearing Hospital Scrubs, a Ball Cap with Dominoes Logo, Down on All Fours, Pearing Between the Legs of a Laboring Archer and Saying, "It's not delivery ... it's DeGiornio!"
4) Two Women Archers Laundering Their Armor ... Lots of Sudsy Brillo Pads ... and Drinking Smirnoff Ice
5) Bikini-clad, Blindfolded Janet Reno Launching Arrows Toward a Wax Effigy of a Naked J. Edgar Hoover Searching "Subterranian Homesick Blues Liner Notes" for Subversive Material

I'm sorry, Abshalom, but this thread is rated "MP" - for mature posters only. You will need to have a parent accompany you if you wish to post here. ------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."

Lotsa words, but there's no evidence Joan was a lesbian, and your read on the Xena/Gabriel relationship reeks more of male fantasy than anything else - hmmm.You're sure putting a lot of energy into arguing about what in the end can only be a matter of opinion. The avatar *does* seem to be yet another example of a common male fantasy, the female warrior/temptress. The sexual preference of the fantasm would I guess depend upon the particular male. But the interpretation any one person places upon the sexual orientation of the avatar is a function of that person and not of any objective reality.Just so I understand the outcome of the hair versus shadow argument, she's gay if it's a shadow and straight if it's hair? Or the other way around? Don't want to get this wrong, you know. --Percy

I think this harks back to what I just said in my previous message, that the interpretation is subjective. I watched Xena with 8 and 10 year olds and never noticed what you and Dan noticed, but I suspect that had I viewed it with an older audience I might have made some of the same interpretations. Was Gabriel's love for Xena lesbian? The show creators left that open to your own interpretation. Neither point of view is conclusively right or wrong, and arguing about it as if there were some objective conclusion to be reached just seems silly and pointless, just like the avatar.When I think back to the show and try to recall Xena's "personal" relationships all I can remember is a God (Ares?) and Hercules, no women. I *did* really enjoy where Xena and Gabriel bathed nude once and exited the bath on camera - thank God for TiVo!--Percy

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Lotsa words, but there's no evidence Joan was a lesbian, and your read on the Xena/Gabriel relationship reeks more of male fantasy than anything else - hmmm.

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Um... Xena/Gabriel *is* fantasy. And in that fantasy world, they're implied to be lesbians.I never claimed that Joan was a lesbian. I claimed that she's likely a FTM. I presented evidence. You don't seem to know the difference between an FTM and a lesbian, despite me explicitly spelling it out in my last post. I'm not at all surprised.

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You're sure putting a lot of energy into arguing about what in the end can only be a matter of opinion. The avatar *does* seem to be yet another example of a common male fantasy, the female warrior/temptress.

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And, again, the whole point of this side tangent: If someone who chose this life style and that style of dress for it actually existed, odds are fairly good that she's a lesbian. I don't care about what the intent was in drawing her

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But the interpretation any one person places upon the sexual orientation of the avatar is a function of that person and not of any objective reality.

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Wrong. People give off clues by their style of dress and behavior as to their sexuality. While the clues may be different across time and culture, judging from my experience in this time and culture someone who looks like that in a non-costume context would likely be a lesbian. I.e., an athletic aggressive warrior girl who chooses non-feminine armor and uses a strength-related weapon.

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Just so I understand the outcome of the hair versus shadow argument, she's gay if it's a shadow and straight if it's hair? Or the other way around? Don't want to get this wrong, you know.

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We're arguing over whether she has long hair or not. Since you've shown yourself to know almost nothing about visual clues to people's sexuality, here's one: short hair on a woman increases the odds that she's a lesbian. Now, before you misread me, I'll state in bold print:Short hair on a woman does not *imply* that she is a lesbian, it just increases the odds.There is no single trait that you can use to judge whether a person is gay. It is the combination, however, of a sizable number of indicator factors that you can clue in by.Care to present better examples of normal straight women than a cross dresser and a lesbian next time, Percy, or are you going to stop while you're still behind?

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Was Gabriel's love for Xena lesbian? The show creators left that open to your own interpretation.

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Oh please, Percy, get real. If you didn't catch it, you are not at all tuned into sexuality.Although, it does bring up an interesting point, something I have really noticed: if someone is not expecting to see something, they often don't see it. Their desire to believe that everything is "normal" when it isn't can be quite strong. I've been out with F2Ms and M2Fs that aren't very passable, and yet they pass with ease most of the time - simply because people don't expect to see someone of the opposite anatomical gender present as the opposite social gender. Hell, my partner once did a god-awful job dressing as a guy so that she could get her hair cut at this cheap place that only does men's hair cuts and refuses to cut women's hair (even if they want a typically "male" haircut) - and they cut it. You've probably seen several dozen and didn't notice it - and I'm not kidding, Percy. It is the same thing with GLBTs in general.------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."[This message has been edited by Rei, 12-03-2003][This message has been edited by Rei, 12-03-2003]

[This message has been edited by MrHambre, 12-03-2003]

I think you're seeing too much. The shadow/hair meets up with the end of the brow, but since it's too dark further up, you cannot see it continue.

Right then. Interview with Lucy Lawless.

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UGO: Do you get a lot of fan mail from homosexual women?

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LL: You can say lesbian [laughs]. Be brave. Just listen to the way you skirted around that question. Xena is a huge lesbian icon, and in the end, she probably was a lesbian. I turned to my husband and said, "You just outted my character." Until that point, it had always been, is she or isn't she? By the end, she was just gay, for god's sakes. Stop beating around the bush.

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What does "bold" hair look like?Oops, forgot to add...[This message has been edited by roxrkool, 12-03-2003]

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I think you're seeing too much. The shadow/hair meets up with the end of the brow, but since it's too dark further up, you cannot see it continue.

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Possible, but it doesn't seem too likely, it'd have to be perfectly hidden. I think it's just the bowstring shadow - it curves because the shadow follows the curves of her face.

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What does "bold" hair look like?

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It means that I was typing too fast, and spelled out the tag's name instead of writing the word "short" I corrected it.------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."[This message has been edited by Rei, 12-03-2003]

Oh, and just for all of the posters who came to this thread, looking to see some hot chicks... :------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."[This message has been edited by Rei, 12-03-2003]

Oh baby, show me your little red x.DAMN, that's fine!

I thought this thread was pretty hot until I got to this: That's a buzz-killer whatever your sexual orientation, including "eunuch."

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Although, it does bring up an interesting point, something I have really noticed: if someone is not expecting to see something, they often don't see it.

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I think you nailed it there.Over Thanksgiving, my girlfriend and I were watching a bunch of episodes of Buffy the Vampire Slayer with some friends. (The friends in question are a rather... innocent couple.) Now I am of the opinion that from at least season 2 on, every single scene in Buffy is sexually charged in some way. Every damn scene, swear to god. My girlfriend agrees, and for the two of us, that's a major draw to the show. Our friends don't see it, and our mass Buffy DVD viewing came about as a result of those friends challenging us to point it out.There's a couple scenes that leap right to mind where the sexual subtext was obvious to us, and they just didn't see it at all. One of them has Spike holding Willow prisoner, and he's kind of drunkenly running his teeth over her neck while she goes wide-eyed in panic. All I could think while watching it was, "Hang on... is he... is he gonna drink her blood or rape her? Damn, that's ****ed up!" Another, more happy scene, has Faith trying to convince Buffy it's fun to be a bad girl. The two look like they're gonna pounce on each other and start making out at any second. In both scenes, we yelled, "Okay, stop it there", rewound it, had them watch it again with those ideas in mind, and watched them go, "ohhhhhhh."Mind you, there's nothing in either the dialogue or the actions of either scene to suggest something sexual. But in little choices that the director or the actors make (and I wasn't backstage, I don't know who it was) I think you'd have to be blind, deaf, and have no genitals to think there isn't something sexual going on there. But somehow, two people I know to be intelligent just didn't see it at first.

No, in fact that's the entire point. She's in a world where wearing armor and shooting bows is an entirely appropriate vocation for heterosexual women. Therefore there's no reason to believe she's gay. Given that you know she's in a fantasy context, why are you judging her sexuality with your own real-context stereotypes? Wouldn't it be more appropriate to assess her apparent sexuality from the standpoint of a denizen of her fantasy world? Hey, don't put words in my mouth. I never said aggressiveness wasn't masculine, too. But masculinity has nothing to do with women. And everybody agrees that women can be very, very agressive when you have something that they want, or are in a position to perform a service for them. From my experiences meeting female hockey players - and marrying one of them - I can assure you that there's more lesbians in the English department than there are on the hockey team. At least in Minnesota. Your stereotypes, you mean. women in this world wear armor and aren'tgay. In fact the majority of women who wear armor - for play, for sports, for law inforcement - aren't gay. In the world represented by the picture, a vast majority of adventuring women wear armor - you kind of have to, really - and aren't gay. So isn't it possible that the "armor = gay" equivalency you seem to have isn't really a real (or fantasy) -world trend, but rather a misapprehension that you alone posess?