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Author Topic:   Gravity versus the Young-Earth Creationists
Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 30 of 55 (104379)
04-30-2004 7:13 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by John Paul
04-30-2004 11:17 AM


Re: Starlight & Time
JP,
Looking around the net, I found this site entitled "The Unraveling of Starlight and Time." It seems that Humphreys has conceded most of the major arguments from Starlight and Time to the point that the theory is no longer feasible. From the above website:
Four years after the original publication of Starlight and Time, Humphreys has abandoned all the central arguments of that hypothesis. All that remains is a skeleton, consisting of the idea of a bounded universe and a phrase, "gravitational time dilation." The disproof of the original central arguments of Starlight and Time is not difficult. Dr. Humphreys' recent abandonment of the central physical arguments of his original proposal shows that these physical arguments were not well-thought out and were not adequately reviewed by experts in relativity theory and cosmology prior to their dissemination in the church.
It seems that Humphreys has rebutted his own theory, as have other christian scientists. I would say that Humphrey's theory is untenable at best.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by John Paul, posted 04-30-2004 11:17 AM John Paul has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by JonF, posted 04-30-2004 8:30 PM Loudmouth has not replied

  
Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 32 of 55 (104424)
04-30-2004 9:00 PM


The following quote is from Humphreys on AiG
(on quantized redshifts measured from earth). . . That would mean the galaxies tend to be grouped into (conceptual) spherical shells concentric around our home galaxy, the Milky Way. The shells turn out to be on the order of a million light years apart. The groups of redshifts would be distinct from each other only if our viewing location is less than a million light years from the centre. The odds for the Earth having such a unique position in the cosmos by accident are less than one in a trillion.
Someone tell me if I am wrong, but wouldn't the observer in any galaxy be able to make the same statement with respect to redishift? My understanding is that the Hubble's law (direct relationship between distance and redshift) is true no matter which galaxy you are observing from. Earth and the Milky way are no more the center of the universe than any other planet in any other galaxy. Again, I am only going by what I have picked up at this site, so someone correct me if I am mistaken.

Replies to this message:
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Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 35 of 55 (105004)
05-03-2004 4:50 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by John Paul
05-03-2004 4:26 PM


Re: Starlight & Time
quote:
The irony that Meert doesn't understand is that on one hand he is saying that Creationists start with the conclusion that God Created all we see and conduct science from that viewpoint. It worked for Newton, Kepler et al....
Where in Newton's laws or Keplers orbital models did they insert God? What part of their science relies on the existence of God?
You are confusing philosophical naturalism with methodological naturalism, two different positions. The former denies the existence of God while the latter excludes the undetectable activity of God in the natural world.
quote:
On the other hand Meert is saying that it is OK to start and work under the conclusion that nature is all there is and science should be conducted accordingly.
Nope, Meert and all of science work under the conclusion that natural phenomena have a natural mechanism. This in no way excludes the existence of a diety.
quote:
IOW if life was designed (or Created) [ we know life exists, so either it was the result of purely natural processes or it wasn't] then it is an injustice not only to science but all of mankind to pidgeon-hole all research to one and only one conclusion. That is leading the evidence and goes against what Meert says real science should be.
It is an injustice to force a supernatural explanation into a gap in our knowledge concerning the natural world. Science is about objectively measuring nature, not subjectively and arbitrarily assigning design where it best fits a religious presupposition. Evolutionary mechanisms are the only observed mechanisms to cause changes within populations, no other mechanism has ever been observed. Why shouldn't science stay with what is observed, and ignore hypotheses about things which are unseen and untestable? If science were allowed to use theories that are untestable and use evidence which is not observed, where would we get? Newton and Kepler were able to understand this, and so should you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by John Paul, posted 05-03-2004 4:26 PM John Paul has replied

Replies to this message:
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