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Author Topic:   What is the YEC answer to the lack of shorter lived isotopes?
Rei
Member (Idle past 7042 days)
Posts: 1546
From: Iowa City, IA
Joined: 09-03-2003


Message 1 of 128 (73137)
12-15-2003 8:23 PM


Reference: here. I've been looking for a YEC to offer their explanation of this for a long time.
Naturally occuring elements on Earth: 84
Naturally occuring isotopes on Earth: 339
Naturally occuring stable isotopes on Earth: 269
Naturally occuring radioisotopes on Earth: 70
Artificially produced radioisotopes: 1650
I assume everyone is following so far, correct? Now, radioisotopes can be produced through collisions, such as we do in particle accelerators, and they can be produced as part of a decay series (such as all of the stages from U238 to Pb208). Decay series isotopes will continue to be produced as long as the parent still exists. Likewise, there are some natural collisions that produce radioisotopes, such as Iodine 129 being produced from Tellurium 130 by cosmic ray muons.
Let's rule all of these out, and only look at isotopes which *aren't* renewed by any of these methods. What do we have? Let's list all of them with half lives of at least a million years, and check to see whether it has ever been found naturally occuring on Earth, even in the most minute quantities.
Vanadium 50: 6,000,000,000,000,000 years. Yes.
Neodymium 144: 2,400,000,000,000,000 years. Yes.
Hafnium 174: 2,000,000,000,000,000 years. Yes.
Platinum 192: 1,000,000,000,000,000 years. Yes.
Indium 115: 600,000,000,000,000 years. Yes.
Gadolinium 152: 110,000,000,000,000 years. Yes.
Tellurium 123: 12,000,000,000,000 years. Yes.
Platinum 190: 690,000,000,000 years. Yes.
Lanthanum 138: 112,000,000,000 years. Yes.
Samarium 147: 106,000,000,000 years. Yes.
Rubidium 87: 48,800,000,000 years. Yes.
Rhenium 187: 43,000,000,000 years. Yes.
Lutetium 176: 35,000,000,000 years. Yes.
Thorium 232: 14,000,000,000 years. Yes.
Uranium 238: 4,470,000,000 years. Yes.
Potassium 40: 1,250,000,000 years. Yes.
Uranium 235: 704,000,000 years. Yes.
Samarium 146: 103,000,000 years. No.
Plutonium 244: 82,000,000 years. By extreme effort - 10^-14 grams found in 85kg of ore.
Curium 247: 16,000,000 years. No.
Lead 205: 15,000,000 years. No.
Hafnium 182: 9,000,000 years. No.
Palladium 107: 7,000,000 years. No.
Cesium 135: 3,000,000 years. No.
Technetium 97: 3,000,000 years. No.
Gadolinium 150: 2,000,000 years. No.
Zirconium 93: 2,000,000 years. No.
Technetium 98: 2,000,000 years. No.
Dysprosium 154: 1,000,000 years. No.
Note that all of the isotopes that aren't produced that have halflives below one million years are similarly absent.
Quite a curious trend, is it not? For a young earth, this poses some serious problems, that as far as I can think of, can only be resolved through one of the following.
1) God is a prankster, and deliberately set up the universe to look old as a trick to us.
2) Radioisotopic decay went faster in the past (still involves a little bit of #1, but not nearly as much).
3) Evil Scientific Conspiracy.
4) Radioisotopes with half lives less than that of Plutonium 244 are, due to unknown phenomina, not naturally created in the universe.
#4 might initially sound promising. Unfortunately, it's false. We've witnessed, in the spectra of supernovae, some of the short half life elements not found on Earth being produced and then decaying. We can see it. So, you'd have to also argue that there's something wrong with spectra (of course, the distances of stars alone requires somewhat of a prankster God, but that's a whole different topic)
Of the remaining, I think #2 will probably prove most palatable to creationists. But this poses a new problem of its own. If radioisotope decay went faster in the past, [i]then the energy released by the decay (E=mc^2) would have been released at a faster rate. In short, Earth would be turned into a pool of molten slag.
Could god have altered the ratio of mass and energy? Sure, although that would alter pretty much *every other* parameter of existance. In short, the first couple days of creation would have to be so altered that space and time as we know it would be completely and utterly different. In short, it might as well have be considered an ancient universe.
I've never yet had the luxury of having a YEC respond to this line of argument. I would love to hear from one.
------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Coragyps, posted 12-16-2003 3:14 PM Rei has replied
 Message 6 by agrav8r, posted 01-08-2004 6:34 PM Rei has not replied
 Message 30 by Stephen ben Yeshua, posted 01-12-2004 1:14 PM Rei has not replied
 Message 37 by Brad McFall, posted 02-17-2004 3:06 PM Rei has not replied
 Message 38 by John Paul, posted 05-03-2004 1:18 PM Rei has not replied
 Message 78 by Zachariah, posted 05-28-2004 2:03 AM Rei has not replied
 Message 96 by peaceharris, posted 07-29-2008 1:02 AM Rei has not replied

  
Rei
Member (Idle past 7042 days)
Posts: 1546
From: Iowa City, IA
Joined: 09-03-2003


Message 3 of 128 (73152)
12-15-2003 9:10 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by hoju
12-15-2003 8:56 PM


quote:
When the Bible says: "cursed is the ground for thy sake" it is likely that a burst of radioactivity was released from the rocks. This would effect the rate of radioactive decay, thus throwing off dating methods (carbon dating etc).
The amount of radiation released would not only have sterilized the earth, but turned it into molten slag. Reread the third to last and second to last paragraphs, where I discussed the issue in more detail.
------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by hoju, posted 12-15-2003 8:56 PM hoju has not replied

  
Rei
Member (Idle past 7042 days)
Posts: 1546
From: Iowa City, IA
Joined: 09-03-2003


Message 5 of 128 (73418)
12-16-2003 3:52 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Coragyps
12-16-2003 3:14 PM


Gee, why didn't I think of that? I can just picture God now...
GOD: Let There Be Isotopes Which Are Unstable! But Don't Let There Be Isotopes That Would Be Missing In A 4.5 Billion Year Old Earth, For Those Are Not Good. Let Those Appear Elsewhere In The Universe, However. And Let The Zircons Contain Only The Decay Products Of These Isotopes, For The Zircons Are Not Good In My Sight.
God is cool....
------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Coragyps, posted 12-16-2003 3:14 PM Coragyps has not replied

  
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