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Author Topic:   20 years of the Creation/ID science curriculum
Cold Foreign Object 
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Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 78 of 305 (454214)
02-05-2008 11:47 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by FliesOnly
02-05-2008 3:34 PM


Re: one thing is clear
Provide to us the testable, falsifiable hypothesis as put forth by the I.D crowd, or admit that there is none. Can you do this...please?
ID is not a theory, it never claimed to be a theory. ID is an observation, however. The current ID movement, which I will call DI IDism, says reality owes its existence to intelligence. IDists identify phenomena to be the product of intelligence.
On the other hand, evolution is a predetermined conclusion based on a philosophical presupposition that says biological reality is not the product of Divine causation. This supposition exists in defiance of the observation of design seen in every aspect of nature and organisms.
We intend to reverse the corruption of the U.S. Constitution from the stranglehold of anti-religious fanatics and teach school children that God is the Creator responsible for the observation of design seen in reality. The pro-Atheism corruption of the Constitution will be vacated wholistically one day in the semi-near future, and there is nothing you can do about it.
Ray
Edited by Cold Foreign Object, : No reason given.

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Cold Foreign Object 
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Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 108 of 305 (454340)
02-06-2008 1:30 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by Coyote
02-06-2008 11:40 AM


The primary goal of ID is to change science completely.
True.
We are only attempting to reverse the grip of Darwinism upon science. Darwinism is false and the same is Atheist ideology packaged as science.
Can you imagine what science would be like if everything had to conform to a fundamentalist and theistic "scientific" method?
Fundamentalism Christianity, like Atheist Evolutionism, accepts microevolution. Science has always disproven any type of evolution. Genuine science presupposes Theism as true. Darwinism has ruined science. We intend to rid science of Darwinism and return it to its former glory. In other words, we intend to banish the voices of Fundamentalism and Atheism from having any say in science.
Ray Martinez, Creationist-Designist.

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Cold Foreign Object 
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Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 112 of 305 (454348)
02-06-2008 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by Coyote
02-06-2008 1:44 PM


Coyote writes:
Sorry to have to break this to you, but you are delusional.
You are the voice of fundamentalism
The evidence says that you are:
Ray originally writes:
Fundamentalism Christianity, like Atheist Evolutionism, accepts microevolution. Science has always disproven any type of evolution. Genuine science presupposes Theism as true. Darwinism has ruined science. We intend to rid science of Darwinism and return it to its former glory. In other words, we intend to banish the voices of Fundamentalism and Atheism from having any say in science.
Since you actually believe apes morphed into men why wouldn't you think I was delusional? Based on said belief concerning apes and men, I am glad that you think I am delusional. The approval of your kind would certainly make me delusional.
Ray Martinez, Creationist-Designist.

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Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3077 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 117 of 305 (454370)
02-06-2008 5:30 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by Rahvin
02-06-2008 3:27 PM


What would the world look like after 20 years of Creationism/ID being taught in schools?
It would be infinetly more intelligent, honest and moral. Darwinism is fraud from top to bottom. Scholars have always known that evolution is false. They failed to educate the world early on which allowed Darwinism to succeed. They decided to be gentle in breaking the bad news that evolution is false. But since 1996 scholars have decided to abandon the gentle approach.
Nobody suggests apes "morphed" into anything, Ray. You've been around here long enough that if you're still parading that sad strawman of evolution....
Human evolution says apes morphed into men over the course of millions of years. Evolution says mankind descended from apes and was not created by God from the clay-like ground. Human evolution is the most basic claim of Darwinism, you should know that.
Ray

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Cold Foreign Object 
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Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 118 of 305 (454372)
02-06-2008 5:40 PM
Reply to: Message 116 by bluegenes
02-06-2008 3:36 PM


Given your view that chimps and ourselves don't share a common ancestor, will the study of the genomes of primates be banned in the brave new world of U.S. education that you're describing?
You're going to have to hide stuff like this from the kids.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=De-OkzTUDVA
Stuff that shows that you have less than one in a million chance of being right, Ray.
Commentary presupposes that genome similarity indicates proof of descent from chimpanzees. The same is an interpretation of said evidence based on the supposition that evolution has occurred, and based on the supposition that Genesis is false. Of course, suppositions are not evidence but filters that interpret evidence.
Ray
Edited by Cold Foreign Object, : No reason given.

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Cold Foreign Object 
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Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 122 of 305 (454385)
02-06-2008 7:04 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by Tanypteryx
02-06-2008 6:41 PM


The Theory of Evolution does not say that humans evolved from chimpanzees.
The Theory of Evolution says chimps morphed into men from an ancient ape ancestor that lived millions of years ago. You do not like how I describe your wacko beliefs, that is your only point. Intelligent persons know that apes (or any animal for that matter) have no power to evolve into men or anything else. Human evolution is an absurdity that can only be understood when it is remembered that all Atheists are evolutionists and therefore Genesis is not an option.
Ray
Edited by Cold Foreign Object, : No reason given.
Edited by Cold Foreign Object, : No reason given.

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Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3077 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 125 of 305 (454390)
02-06-2008 7:35 PM
Reply to: Message 119 by Coyote
02-06-2008 5:53 PM


Actually, religiously-motivated individuals are becoming increasingly strident in their opposition to the theory of evolution since the losses in the U.S. Supreme Court. And they are getting farther from reality. Your post is a classic example.
Something that a evolutionist would say.
Creation "science" was blown out of the water in the late 1980s, leading to the current push for intelligent design. That has now been blown out of the water as well. The courts have recognized what science has long known.
Funny how the Constitution suddenly said Creationism was unconstitutional after judges, who are Darwinists, came to power.
Neither of these two ideas is science, nor were they ever accepted by mainstream science (99.5% of working scientists).
We already know that Atheists think Creationism-Design is not science, what is your point?
That is why your comments that you and your comrads are going to force your theology down our throats, and there is nothing we can do about it, are so ludicrous.
This comment defends the imposition of Atheist "science" (= Darwinism) upon Theist America. Again, we will prevail and remove the scourge of Darwinism that has been forced upon us.
You can't get your religion into the school systems because it is not science no matter how hard you posture, and everybody knows it.
Darwinian judges rule as expected. We will, in the semi-near future, reverse the corruption of pro-evolution judges.
Looks like your only choice is a coup and installation of a religious dictatorship under a prophet. Is that what you are advocating?
Negative.
When the corruption of the Constitution is reversed, science will be restored to the classroom one appoitment at a time.
You need not be so paranoid, we are only trying to restore a scientific theory that over half of all adults in America accept as true.
Ray
Edited by Cold Foreign Object, : No reason given.

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Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3077 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 126 of 305 (454391)
02-06-2008 7:46 PM
Reply to: Message 124 by nator
02-06-2008 7:31 PM


Chimps never "morphed into men", just like you didn't "morph" out of one of your ancestors 100 generations ago.
Chimps and men have a common ancestor, just like you have a common ancestor with your siblings.
These comments silently agree that the concept of human evolution, and the way I am describing it, is ridiculous. Apes slowly changing into men, or morphing, as I have described it, would be a miracle, the same, of course, has no source.
Evolutionists laugh at the Genesis explanation of mankind while forgetting that their explanation is truly ridiculous (apes morphing into men).
The Bible is the most respected Source in the world and it declares that Adamkind were created by Divine power.
Ray

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Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3077 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 130 of 305 (454422)
02-06-2008 10:46 PM
Reply to: Message 128 by Tanypteryx
02-06-2008 9:39 PM


If the future you envision comes to pass life in America will be pretty grim. While you are at it you better add some new amendments to the constitution, like, "no thinking about evolution allowed", "no reading anything but the bible" in fact, "no thinking at all".
That is a good description of reality today; Darwin and only Darwin is allowed; the Bible is banned; life in America is ruled by the grim reaper of Darwinism.
What does Saudi Arabia, Iran, North Korea, China, Syria and the U.S. Supreme Court all have in common?
They have banned the Bible. The same is excellent proof that Satan rules the kingdoms of this world just like the Bible says.
You are delusional and your vision scares the hell out of me.
Could we expect an Atheist to say anything else?
Let's just ignore the truth, the evidence, and vote on it.
Truth has been ignored, that is why we need to reverse the scourge of Atheist ideology called Darwinism.
Ray
Edited by Cold Foreign Object, : No reason given.

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Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3077 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 132 of 305 (454435)
02-06-2008 11:30 PM
Reply to: Message 131 by Minnemooseus
02-06-2008 11:21 PM


Re: Paging a creationist moderator...
...or even a creationist who would like to fake being one.
Does Ray's position strike you as being cutting edge (paranoid?) delusional crackpot?
Do you want this to pass as a representation of Christianity?
Logically, whoever evolutionists say is the most deluded is the most correct because evolutionists always slander the Christian that represents the greatest threat to their theory.
You have also summoned a Creationist Moderator. If there are any in this Forum then you are telling them to punish me. If this happens, since I have engaged in no invective or profanity, or broken any rules, this will prove Biblical typology that says persons close to Christ will betray Him to His face with a kiss. Jesus said His true servants will be treated the same. So let this Judas appear and prove Biblical typology true corresponding to reality.
Ray

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Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3077 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 142 of 305 (454522)
02-07-2008 1:56 PM
Reply to: Message 135 by Trixie
02-07-2008 6:18 AM


Re: Paging a creationist moderator...
This article highlights exactly what fellow Creationists think of Ray's frothings and how even discussion with fellow Creationistsdescends into accusations of inability to refute, Godsense removal, atheist etc, the usual Ray Martinez MO.
You have misunderstood.
The conversations I had were with Fundamentalist Christians and Theistic evolutionists. Both accept microevolution. I do not.
Secondly, the page in its entirety is the product of a theistic evolutionist named Chris Ashcraft. He wrote the entire page that you have found. I did not. I emailed him and asked him to explain his actions but I have not received a reply.
Thirdly, the fact remains; you - an Atheist evolutionist are aligned with Fundamentalist Christians and Theistic evolutionists - I am not. I am glad to be rejected by Atheist evolutionists and Fundamentalist Christianity, and I am glad you have presented this evidence.
Ray

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Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3077 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 143 of 305 (454524)
02-07-2008 2:02 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by Percy
02-07-2008 8:46 AM


Re: Paging a creationist moderator...
The creationist admins Ray was dealing with were patient, rational and sought evidence.
Logically, since you - an Atheist evolutionist - support them, they cannot be real Creationists because an Atheist evolutionist would never support a real Creationist.
We know that these "Creationists" are Fundamentalists and they accept microevolution. I am glad all of you reject me. The support of any one of you would prove me to be just like you.
Ray

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Cold Foreign Object 
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Posts: 3417
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Message 145 of 305 (454527)
02-07-2008 2:16 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by Larni
02-07-2008 4:16 AM


Re: Paging a creationist moderator...
Hi Ray. Don't you think that the US (I assume your are from the US based on your opinions) will fall terribly far behind the more scientifically oriented countries such as those in Europe and the Commonwealth, China and Japan?
Americans from Los Angeles (where I was born and raised) do not fear our inferiors.
We do know that the scientific method that has up until now been very good to the US will no longer operate if the protocols that conclude the ToE are removed.
You have misunderstood. Evolution is a religion that has been forced onto America by anti-religious fanatics. It has nothing to do with science.
Does this not imply quite strongly that the pace of discovery in the US will decline?
Why would it?
What are you talking about?
Can we not model the future of the US on countries where the present day pace of scientific discovery is retarded by religious parameters?
You are ignorant. The U.S. became the greatest nation when religious freedom was real. We have steadily declined since the rise of Judges who are Darwinists, who were "educated" in universities poisoned by Darwinism.
Ray

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Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3077 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 146 of 305 (454529)
02-07-2008 2:23 PM
Reply to: Message 144 by Rahvin
02-07-2008 2:07 PM


Re: Paging a creationist moderator...
Percy's not an Atheist, Ray, you know that.
Evidence...?
The best part of all of this (aside from the early morning laughs Trixie has provided) is that now we finally get to do some research regarding this "scientist" you've based your vapid paper on! I can't wait to see the sort of lunacy this guy must have come up with to inspire your ravings!
Is there any evolutionist who accepts any person as a scholar that rejects evolution?
Logic says that whoever evolutionists slander the most is the most correct. This means Dembski and Behe are most correct since they seem to be the main target of evolutionist howling.
Ray

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Cold Foreign Object 
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Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 150 of 305 (454536)
02-07-2008 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by reiverix
02-07-2008 8:25 AM


You think you are so oppressed but the reality is you just want to force your views on everyone. Our lives would be governed by your beliefs with no room for thinking out of line. You paint a grim picture of a terrible future.
It is a fact that pro-evolution judges have banned a scientific theory that half of all adults in the U.S. accept as true. Your comment seeks to preserve the imposition of Darwinism onto America by Darwinian judges. I seek to reverse the imposition.
The bible is far from banned and you know it and the classroom is certainly no place for your lunatic ravings
The experts like Castro, Pol Pot, Tse-Tung, Stalin and Hussein agree: censorship works: the Bible has been banned by Darwinian Judges on the Supreme and Federal court system. They have adjudicated their bias into the Constitution written by Deists, Theists and Christians in the 18th century. Again, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Iran, North Korea and China, like the Supreme Court, have all banned the Bible. What do these facts tell an objective person?
Proof of the existence of the superhuman personage of Satan.
Luke 4:5,6
And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.
And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.
So if you really think bringing religion into science would improve our lives, just tell me about all the past inventions/discoveries that were made by inspiration of god.
Comment presupposes false premises. That God is not proven by Science and that Darwinism is responsible for scientific advance.
Ray

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