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Author Topic:   Creationist Fred Williams' Web Site Lies
wwjd
Inactive Member


Message 25 of 40 (23283)
11-19-2002 5:09 PM


Attacking one creationist doesn't refute the entire theroy of creation. There are just as many people on your side of the fence we could choose to pick on, but that is not what we are about here.
The point of this discussion seems to be that of creationists challenging the thory of evolution, and evolutionist challenging creationists. Please pay close attention cause it is part of my point.
While we refute what we believe is the truth in the thory of biblical creation, you attack us personally for our beliefs. There are many holes in the theory of evolution such as the method of carbon dating which has been proven by scientists to be inaccurate. Most of the people on this site stand by that method and even attempt to use it as part of thier evidence.
Much of what you say sounds good and even logical, but then it begins to take a turn for the worst, I like to call it circular reasoning, the cause causes the cause, or the effect causes the effect, and even the effect effects the effect, and so on and so on.
The theory of creation stays the same no matter how you describe it and it has been written many different ways, but the end result never changes. It is hard for most people to consume it as it is a simple yet complex theory. The best part is we are only talking about one story from the bible.
Someone please explain that if the theroy evolution is true, why does everything show a pattern of being designed by intelligence. I've seen people use digitally coplex graphics to show chaos taking shape and making something that reveals perfection, but it is a computer being told to do exactly that and proves nothing. I'll end this reply at that and see where you take it.
Bless You All.

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by wj, posted 11-19-2002 8:53 PM wwjd has replied

wwjd
Inactive Member


Message 27 of 40 (23361)
11-20-2002 9:36 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by wj
11-19-2002 8:53 PM


quote:
Originally posted by wj:

I suggest you initiate another thread on this particluar point and you will be informed of the correct scientific view and application of carbon dating rather than the strawman which you appear to be attacking.

I've been informed of the scientific view. Your dating method is inacurate. You assume I am attacking something other than the theory of evolution, why did you not answer my question?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by wj, posted 11-19-2002 8:53 PM wj has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by John, posted 11-20-2002 9:46 AM wwjd has replied

wwjd
Inactive Member


Message 29 of 40 (23415)
11-20-2002 7:11 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by John
11-20-2002 9:46 AM


quote:
Originally posted by John:

Carbon dating is perfectly accurate within its margin of error It isn't applicable to all materials, nor to all time frames, and it is subject to contamination. Big suprise. We live in an imperfect world.
Why not post your data proving C14 inaccurate?

Why not try this on for size.
"...Carbon dating is likely to produce wildly inaccurate results..."
Harvey Rowe (Smithsonian Institute)
Curator, Antiquities
This having been said when the head of a chewed up barbie doll was found buy some guy who likes to dig in his back yard and decided to send his findings to the Smithsonian Institute to have it carbon dated.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by John, posted 11-20-2002 9:46 AM John has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by John, posted 11-20-2002 11:25 PM wwjd has not replied
 Message 33 by Percy, posted 11-21-2002 9:29 AM wwjd has not replied

wwjd
Inactive Member


Message 35 of 40 (23498)
11-21-2002 11:44 AM


Carbon Dating: The Assumptions
Carbon Dating is one of many Radiometric Dating techniques. As such, it shares some of the controversial assumptions fundamental to Radiometric Dating, such as (i) a constant rate of decay, (ii) no loss or gain of parent or daughter elements during decay, and (iii) known amounts of daughter elements present at the beginning of decay. Carbon Dating is often confused with other radiometric techniques, which place the ages of inorganic material in the millions or billions of years. As shown above, Carbon Dating is only used to date organic matter and is unable to determine the age of anything exceeding 60,000 years old.
Carbon Dating: The Controversy
Carbon Dating is actually more controversial than other radiometric dating techniques, in that it makes an additional major assumption. In order for Carbon Dating to have any value, Carbon-14, produced in our outer atmosphere as Nitrogen-14 and changed into radioactive Carbon-14 by cosmic-ray bombardment, must be at equilibrium in our atmosphere. That is, the production rate must be equal to the decay rate. Based on the mathematics inherent in Libby's research, it takes approximately 30,000 years of Carbon-14 build up from a zero concentration level to reach this state of equilibrium. Recent studies indicate that Carbon-14 has not yet reached equilibrium in our atmosphere, thus indicating that the atmosphere is not yet 30,000 years old.
Carbon Dating: The Use Of Dendrochronology
Carbon Dating advocates have turned to Dendrochronology (tree ring dating) to help solve the "equilibrium" dilemma. They claim that Dendrochronology allows them to determine past concentration levels of Carbon-14 in the atmosphere, by measuring the Carbon-14 to Carbon-12 ratios in tree rings. The problem is that no trees have been shown to exceed 4,500 years in age. The Methuselah Tree in Southern California has been called the oldest living tree, and it has been dated at approximately 4,500 years. Carbon Dating advocates use tree rings from dead trees thought to overlap the Methuselah Tree to mathematically determine ages exceeding 4,500 years. They determine whether a dead tree's age overlaps the Methuselah Tree's age by ring patterns, and then they assume that the dead trees are older through a comparison of ring patterns, carbon ratios, etc. There seems to be an illogical methodology here. To complicate matters, tree ring patterns are typically inconsistent. Even living trees can show dissimilar patterns caused by differing soil nutrients, direction of prevailing sunlight, fire history, distance to water sources, etc.
http://www.carbon-dating.net/
My opinion based on what I've seen, read and heared, The Carbon Dating is incurrate on plastic or anything else for that matter.

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by edge, posted 11-21-2002 12:52 PM wwjd has replied

wwjd
Inactive Member


Message 37 of 40 (23517)
11-21-2002 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by edge
11-21-2002 12:52 PM


quote:
Originally posted by edge:

Your opinion is based on misinformation and misunderstanding. You have been deceived by your professional creationists...

You're mis-informing me and blaming it on my understanding of logic? And the professional creationist's deceiving me? A statement such as that one insists that one does not have an open mind, which is a personal attack. Try to leave the personal attacks out of it and we might get somewhere. If you think I am mis-understanding something, PLEASE, clear it up! After all, thats why I'm here!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by edge, posted 11-21-2002 12:52 PM edge has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by Percy, posted 11-21-2002 2:46 PM wwjd has not replied

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