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Author Topic:   $50 to anyone who can prove to me Evolution is a lie.
Stephen ben Yeshua
Inactive Member


Message 222 of 305 (79613)
01-20-2004 3:47 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Sharon357
08-20-2003 10:04 AM


Your epistemological strategy, please?
Sharon357,
Many have wondered how evolution could be falsified. Do you have an epistemological strategy by which this could happen? Any sort of experiment, or natural history pattern, that would contradict evolution?
My favorite, which I have presented elsewhere, is this:
If evolution is a lie, it will be mal-adaptive, as defined by reproductive potential, W, to believe in evolution. This is true, because both evolution and creation believe that species are well adapted, as evidenced by a high fitness or reproductive potential. Then, if evolution is a lie, creationists who believe the truth will have a high W, while evolutionists will have a low W. If evolution is true, and creation a delusion or lie, the reverse will be the case. Creationists will have low W, and evolutionist a high value. Manifestly, creationists have much higher W than evolutionists, so evolution is disproved.
Did I win something?
Stephen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Sharon357, posted 08-20-2003 10:04 AM Sharon357 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 223 by Loudmouth, posted 01-20-2004 5:13 PM Stephen ben Yeshua has replied
 Message 225 by crashfrog, posted 01-21-2004 2:07 AM Stephen ben Yeshua has replied

Stephen ben Yeshua
Inactive Member


Message 230 of 305 (79757)
01-21-2004 9:55 AM
Reply to: Message 225 by crashfrog
01-21-2004 2:07 AM


Lies, believing or telling
Crashfrog,
Sometimes telling lies enhances your reproductive success at the expense of the reproductive success of those who are taken in by your lie. Which proves my point, that believing lies costs reproductive success.
See Rohwer's research on putting false status symbols on Harris' Sparrows, and bleaching real ones away.
Stephen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 225 by crashfrog, posted 01-21-2004 2:07 AM crashfrog has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 233 by Dan Carroll, posted 01-21-2004 11:09 AM Stephen ben Yeshua has not replied

Stephen ben Yeshua
Inactive Member


Message 231 of 305 (79761)
01-21-2004 10:10 AM
Reply to: Message 223 by Loudmouth
01-20-2004 5:13 PM


Re: Your epistemological strategy, please?
Loudmouth,
You ask,
Explain how post-fertilization activities affect allele distribution.
What you mean, I guess, is allele frequency. So, parents who don't divorce, who love each other increasingly over the course of their marriage, especially post-fertilization, enhance the psychological well-being of their offspring, who respond by having more grand-children. Evolution would look for genes that enhance such behavior. Creation would look for evidence that the Creator was pleased, and would then artificially select, and genetically engineer changes in response to a couple's choosing this life-style. In the present context, such genes are probably already present, but suppressed by demons, and all the Creator has to do in response to the parental choice and prayer for protection, is "deliver them from the evil one."
How do you explain infertility among creationists? Sorry, not buying this one.
Case by case, we normally have to ask Jehovah. But, clearly, there is more to getting the blessing of fertility from God than just believing in creation. There's the prayer aspect, as well. Do a Google on prayer and fertility. But, believing in creation is a part, and it ought to be statistically correlated with some blessing. Other variables create an error term, statistically.
What about the idea makes you not want to buy it?
Stephen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 223 by Loudmouth, posted 01-20-2004 5:13 PM Loudmouth has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 232 by NosyNed, posted 01-21-2004 11:01 AM Stephen ben Yeshua has replied

Stephen ben Yeshua
Inactive Member


Message 234 of 305 (79788)
01-21-2004 11:11 AM
Reply to: Message 232 by NosyNed
01-21-2004 11:01 AM


Re: Your epistemological strategy, please?
Nosyned,
I've been doing that trying to find the replications of that 2 year old study. Where are they?
E-mail that comment to NIH!
But do check out Koenig at Duke.
Stephen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 232 by NosyNed, posted 01-21-2004 11:01 AM NosyNed has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 238 by NosyNed, posted 01-21-2004 1:25 PM Stephen ben Yeshua has replied

Stephen ben Yeshua
Inactive Member


Message 241 of 305 (79836)
01-21-2004 2:02 PM
Reply to: Message 238 by NosyNed
01-21-2004 1:25 PM


Re: Your epistemological strategy, please?
Nosyned,
No, no replication yet. Probably won't be one for many years. Too few real scientists out there. Too much "sneer" review. It's a fallen world.
But you don't have to suffer, waiting! You can do your own experiments! What's your choice?
Stephen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 238 by NosyNed, posted 01-21-2004 1:25 PM NosyNed has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 242 by NosyNed, posted 01-21-2004 2:10 PM Stephen ben Yeshua has replied
 Message 243 by Loudmouth, posted 01-21-2004 2:17 PM Stephen ben Yeshua has replied

Stephen ben Yeshua
Inactive Member


Message 244 of 305 (79852)
01-21-2004 3:41 PM
Reply to: Message 242 by NosyNed
01-21-2004 2:10 PM


Re: Your epistemological strategy, please?
Nosyned,
You keep acting like creationists of the Christian ilk are somehow interested in the truth. They're far worse than evolutionists! God Himself calls them all liars, while He gives you guys a break. The ICR is hopeless! But you ask,
Why would someone want to involve themselves with such things?
Eternal life?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 242 by NosyNed, posted 01-21-2004 2:10 PM NosyNed has not replied

Stephen ben Yeshua
Inactive Member


Message 245 of 305 (79853)
01-21-2004 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 243 by Loudmouth
01-21-2004 2:17 PM


Re: Your epistemological strategy, please?
Loudmouth,
Good idea. I'm in. But I'll want to start with praying for germinating plants, since those studies were so easily replicable. (Frank Loehr, before he lost it!)
Stephen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 243 by Loudmouth, posted 01-21-2004 2:17 PM Loudmouth has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 246 by Loudmouth, posted 01-21-2004 5:00 PM Stephen ben Yeshua has replied

Stephen ben Yeshua
Inactive Member


Message 271 of 305 (80461)
01-24-2004 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 246 by Loudmouth
01-21-2004 5:00 PM


Re: Your epistemological strategy, please?
Loudmouth,
I'll do it. Give me some time to think it out!
Stephen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 246 by Loudmouth, posted 01-21-2004 5:00 PM Loudmouth has not replied

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