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Author Topic:   Did Justice Elena Kagan lie to Congress?
ringo
Member
Posts: 19720
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 46 of 61 (895591)
07-07-2022 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Sarah Bellum
07-05-2022 2:36 PM


Sarah Bellum writes:
Do you really think she changed her mind? Or simply told a convenient lie?
I have no way of knowing that. And neither do you.
And neither does anybody who might try to "impeach" her. If you had put a moment's thought into it, you would not have asked if she could be impeached.
Sarah Bellum writes:
Or maybe there was a third alternative, that she used enough cleverly chosen verbiage so that what she said wasn't a lie, but could be interpreted by her listeners in disparate ways?
If that was a crime, every politician on earth would be in prison.

"Let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt."
-- motto of the Special Olympians

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Sarah Bellum, posted 07-05-2022 2:36 PM Sarah Bellum has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7403
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 47 of 61 (895594)
07-07-2022 1:01 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Sarah Bellum
07-07-2022 9:28 AM


Re: Why don't you try to.make an actual argument to discuss.
Wrong again. I will demand source for all quotes. Many quotes attributed to famous people are not true.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Sarah Bellum, posted 07-07-2022 9:28 AM Sarah Bellum has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by Sarah Bellum, posted 07-07-2022 1:25 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7403
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 48 of 61 (895595)
07-07-2022 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by Sarah Bellum
07-07-2022 9:36 AM


Re: Why don't you try to.make an actual argument to discuss.
You refuse to defend your op but feel fine with more off topic crap.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Sarah Bellum, posted 07-07-2022 9:36 AM Sarah Bellum has not replied

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 823
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 49 of 61 (895596)
07-07-2022 1:25 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Theodoric
07-07-2022 1:01 PM


Re: Why don't you try to.make an actual argument to discuss.
This just proves my point. You say "Many quotes attributed to famous people are not true," which is certainly a true statement. Everyone knows it's true. So there's no need to provide references for it. So you didn't provide references. And of course nobody is calling you out for not providing references.
That is how we do things in this forum.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Theodoric, posted 07-07-2022 1:01 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by Theodoric, posted 07-07-2022 1:34 PM Sarah Bellum has replied
 Message 52 by Percy, posted 07-07-2022 1:36 PM Sarah Bellum has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20948
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 50 of 61 (895597)
07-07-2022 1:26 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by Sarah Bellum
07-07-2022 9:36 AM


Re: Why don't you try to.make an actual argument to discuss.
Sarah Bellum writes:
In the days of majority leader Lyndon Johnson people like Manchin and Sinema wouldn't have been able to pull their stunts.
Lyndon Johnson was Senate majority leader in the 85th Congress (1957-1959) with a 2 seat majority.
He was Senate majority leader again in the 86th Congress (1959-1961) with a 28 seat majority.
Chuck Shumer is Senate majority leader today in the 117th Congress (2021-2023) with a 0 seat majority with the Vice President casting the tie vote.
You are correct that Manchin and Sinema wouldn't be able to wield the power they do were they in either of Johnson's Congresses, but it has nothing to do with Johnson and everything to do with the fact that he had an actual majority, especially in the 86th Congress.
Though I can't say I agree with the specifics of your other comments, I understand how you could feel that way. Robert Heinlein once wrote that the mere fact of desiring public office should be disqualifying.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Sarah Bellum, posted 07-07-2022 9:36 AM Sarah Bellum has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7403
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 51 of 61 (895598)
07-07-2022 1:34 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Sarah Bellum
07-07-2022 1:25 PM


Re: Why don't you try to.make an actual argument to discuss.
Self awareness seems to be an issue. Goodbye.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Sarah Bellum, posted 07-07-2022 1:25 PM Sarah Bellum has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by Sarah Bellum, posted 07-08-2022 9:22 AM Theodoric has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20948
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 52 of 61 (895599)
07-07-2022 1:36 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Sarah Bellum
07-07-2022 1:25 PM


Re: Why don't you try to.make an actual argument to discuss.
Sarah Bellum writes:
This just proves my point. You say "Many quotes attributed to famous people are not true," which is certainly a true statement. Everyone knows it's true. So there's no need to provide references for it. So you didn't provide references. And of course nobody is calling you out for not providing references.
I don't know if anyone's bothered to document the degree of misattribution of quotes on the Internet, but I can't count the number of times I've noted that it wasn't actually so-and-so who said such-and such.
I don't know if it's true, but it feels like most quotes get attributed to Mark Twain, Abraham Lincoln, Winston Churchill, Albert Einstein, Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin. As Mark Twain said, "A lie can travel halfway around the world before the truth can get its boots on."
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Sarah Bellum, posted 07-07-2022 1:25 PM Sarah Bellum has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6828
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.3


(4)
Message 53 of 61 (895606)
07-07-2022 8:35 PM


Resource Relativity

Edited by AZPaul3, .

Edited by AZPaul3, .


Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by Sarah Bellum, posted 07-08-2022 9:34 AM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 823
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 54 of 61 (895609)
07-08-2022 9:22 AM
Reply to: Message 51 by Theodoric
07-07-2022 1:34 PM


Re: Why don't you try to.make an actual argument to discuss.
I've counted about a dozen posts you've made. None said anything substantive. Most were just whining. How can you say "goodbye" if you never were here in the first place?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Theodoric, posted 07-07-2022 1:34 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 823
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 55 of 61 (895610)
07-08-2022 9:34 AM
Reply to: Message 53 by AZPaul3
07-07-2022 8:35 PM


Re: Resource Relativity
When Stephen Hawking appeared on Star Trek, Brent Spiner made a joke about Einstein appearing on Gunsmoke. Some people took it seriously.
Albert Einstein and Gunsmoke

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by AZPaul3, posted 07-07-2022 8:35 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by ringo, posted 07-08-2022 12:02 PM Sarah Bellum has replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19720
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


(3)
Message 56 of 61 (895616)
07-08-2022 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by Sarah Bellum
07-08-2022 9:34 AM


Re: Resource Relativity
Sarah Bellum writes:
When Stephen Hawking appeared on Star Trek, Brent Spiner made a joke about Einstein appearing on Gunsmoke. Some people took it seriously.
I distinctly remember an episode of Gunsmoke where Sammy Davis Jr. plays a telegraph operator who's bored with his life. When he intercepts a telegram from Dodge city to a notorious gunslinger, the next thing we see is Sammy arriving in Dodge City dressed as the notorious gunslinger, all black leather and silver conchos, intending to take his place. He soon comes to the attention of Marshall Dillon, who tells him there will be no gunfighting in "his" town.
The memory (from fifty years ago) is very clear in my mind.
But Sammy Davis Jr. was never on Gunsmoke. The episode that I remember so clearly is from The Rifleman.
Memory can play strange tricks, like when you drive by here every month or so with no memory whatsoever of what a fool you made of yourself last time.

"Let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt."
-- motto of the Special Olympians

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Sarah Bellum, posted 07-08-2022 9:34 AM Sarah Bellum has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by Sarah Bellum, posted 07-08-2022 3:38 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 823
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 57 of 61 (895617)
07-08-2022 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by ringo
07-08-2022 12:02 PM


Re: Resource Relativity
And your playful (if content-free) gibes are one of the many reasons why I make time in my schedule to get out my phone and check on the activity at this website!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by ringo, posted 07-08-2022 12:02 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by AZPaul3, posted 07-08-2022 4:22 PM Sarah Bellum has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6828
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 58 of 61 (895618)
07-08-2022 4:22 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by Sarah Bellum
07-08-2022 3:38 PM


Re: Resource Relativity
Content-free?
Then you missed a nice take down.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Sarah Bellum, posted 07-08-2022 3:38 PM Sarah Bellum has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by Sarah Bellum, posted 07-10-2022 1:25 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 823
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 59 of 61 (895673)
07-10-2022 1:25 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by AZPaul3
07-08-2022 4:22 PM


Re: Resource Relativity
Really? If you say so, I will do my best to believe it, but . . .

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by AZPaul3, posted 07-08-2022 4:22 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by ringo, posted 07-11-2022 12:30 PM Sarah Bellum has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20948
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.1


(1)
Message 60 of 61 (895693)
07-11-2022 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by Sarah Bellum
07-07-2022 9:09 AM


Sarah Bellum writes:
So does this mean you're going for the third alternative, that she used enough cleverly chosen verbiage so that what she said wasn't a lie, but could be interpreted by her listeners in disparate ways?
I quoted the relevant actual exchange from her confirmation hearings on her nomination to the Supreme Court. If you want to point to the parts of it you're thinking of then we can talk about it, but this message contains far too little information, just suggestions she was lying while not bothering to indicate where she lied.
I'm still wondering why you're focused on Kagan when three justices responsible for overturning Roe clearly and unambiguously lied during their confirmation hearings.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Sarah Bellum, posted 07-07-2022 9:09 AM Sarah Bellum has not replied

  
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