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Author Topic:   Did Justice Elena Kagan lie to Congress?
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 823
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 16 of 61 (895538)
07-05-2022 2:37 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Percy
07-04-2022 11:14 AM


Oh, I'm quite sure she revised and extended her remarks!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Percy, posted 07-04-2022 11:14 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by Percy, posted 07-06-2022 10:41 AM Sarah Bellum has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7403
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 17 of 61 (895539)
07-05-2022 2:42 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Sarah Bellum
07-05-2022 2:26 PM


Re: Why don't you try to.make an actual argument to discuss.
Was that so hard? That is how we do things in this forum. Still no argument supporting the OP.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Sarah Bellum, posted 07-05-2022 2:26 PM Sarah Bellum has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Sarah Bellum, posted 07-05-2022 2:48 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 823
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 18 of 61 (895540)
07-05-2022 2:44 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by AZPaul3
07-04-2022 12:24 PM


Re: It's Politics
quote
First, at the time the question was asked Kagan was well within bounds and propriety. There was no such right.
That's an interesting interpretation! So it was like the legend of Galileo muttering "eppur si muove" . . . and Elena Kagan was quietly adding " . . . there is no federal constitutional right not right now, but there will be if I ever get on the Supreme Court"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by AZPaul3, posted 07-04-2022 12:24 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by AZPaul3, posted 07-05-2022 5:39 PM Sarah Bellum has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7403
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 19 of 61 (895541)
07-05-2022 2:45 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Sarah Bellum
07-05-2022 2:26 PM


Re: Why don't you try to.make an actual argument to discuss.
But I don't see calls to be impeached because of their opinions.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Sarah Bellum, posted 07-05-2022 2:26 PM Sarah Bellum has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Sarah Bellum, posted 07-05-2022 2:56 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 823
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 20 of 61 (895542)
07-05-2022 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Theodoric
07-05-2022 2:42 PM


Re: Why don't you try to.make an actual argument to discuss.
Hard? Actually it was quite trivial. Because that information has been in the news for everyone to see for quite some time. But as Orwell said, "To see what is in front of one’s nose needs a constant struggle."
Keep up the struggle!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Theodoric, posted 07-05-2022 2:42 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Theodoric, posted 07-05-2022 3:55 PM Sarah Bellum has replied

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 823
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 21 of 61 (895543)
07-05-2022 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by PaulK
07-05-2022 9:48 AM


Re: Why don't you try to.make an actual argument to discuss.
Oh yes, the impulses to do that sort of thing lurk on both sides of the aisle.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by PaulK, posted 07-05-2022 9:48 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by PaulK, posted 07-05-2022 2:58 PM Sarah Bellum has replied

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 823
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 22 of 61 (895544)
07-05-2022 2:56 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Theodoric
07-05-2022 2:45 PM


Re: Why don't you try to.make an actual argument to discuss.
Once again, Orwell could explain that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Theodoric, posted 07-05-2022 2:45 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Theodoric, posted 07-05-2022 3:57 PM Sarah Bellum has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17178
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 23 of 61 (895545)
07-05-2022 2:58 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Sarah Bellum
07-05-2022 2:53 PM


Re: Why don't you try to.make an actual argument to discuss.
The difference is that the Republicans have openly done it. Redressing the balance would be steering the country away from being a “banana republic”. But it seems that you don’t want that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Sarah Bellum, posted 07-05-2022 2:53 PM Sarah Bellum has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Sarah Bellum, posted 07-05-2022 3:15 PM PaulK has replied

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 823
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 24 of 61 (895546)
07-05-2022 3:15 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by PaulK
07-05-2022 2:58 PM


Re: Why don't you try to.make an actual argument to discuss.
Oh, no, if President Biden could appoint, say, four new justices, which he can, given Democrat control of Congress, that would bring things back into balance, and we could go back to Roe (though, really, instead of a complex, messy, Roe decision, we really should have one that says a woman can make decisions about her medical care without interference from the state. Period), not to mention fixing the firearms decision and so forth.
But is that really the way to do it? I mean, it's so much simpler (since Democrats have control of Congress) to just pass a law codifying Roe (the Dobbs decision doesn't say Congress can't!)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by PaulK, posted 07-05-2022 2:58 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by PaulK, posted 07-05-2022 3:31 PM Sarah Bellum has replied
 Message 39 by Percy, posted 07-06-2022 10:52 AM Sarah Bellum has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17178
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 25 of 61 (895547)
07-05-2022 3:31 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Sarah Bellum
07-05-2022 3:15 PM


Re: Why don't you try to.make an actual argument to discuss.
quote
Oh, no, if President Biden could appoint, say, four new justices, which he can, given Democrat control of Congress, that would bring things back into balance, and we could go back to Roe
Sinema and Manchin are hardly guaranteed to go along with any such plan, and I’m not suggesting another reversal anyway - just forestalling more atrocious decisions. For all it’s bad effects reversing Roe is hardly the worst decision this Court has made, and if Thomas has his way, worse is still to come.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Sarah Bellum, posted 07-05-2022 3:15 PM Sarah Bellum has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by vimesey, posted 07-05-2022 3:48 PM PaulK has not replied
 Message 30 by Sarah Bellum, posted 07-05-2022 5:22 PM PaulK has replied

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1329
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 26 of 61 (895548)
07-05-2022 3:48 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by PaulK
07-05-2022 3:31 PM


Re: Why don't you try to.make an actual argument to discuss.
The biggest protection of freedom and democracy is the separation of powers - the executive, the legislature and the judiciary.
It's hard to keep the executive and the legislature separate, but an independent judiciary is key to the prevention of totalitarianism. Making the legislature subject to political appointment destroys that protection.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by PaulK, posted 07-05-2022 3:31 PM PaulK has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7403
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 27 of 61 (895549)
07-05-2022 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Sarah Bellum
07-05-2022 2:48 PM


Re: Why don't you try to.make an actual argument to discuss.
It is called supporting an assertion with actual facts and data. Something you seem to find quite difficult.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Sarah Bellum, posted 07-05-2022 2:48 PM Sarah Bellum has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by Sarah Bellum, posted 07-05-2022 5:14 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7403
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 28 of 61 (895550)
07-05-2022 3:57 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Sarah Bellum
07-05-2022 2:56 PM


Re: Why don't you try to.make an actual argument to discuss.
Not my job to support your assertions.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Sarah Bellum, posted 07-05-2022 2:56 PM Sarah Bellum has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by Sarah Bellum, posted 07-05-2022 5:27 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 823
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 29 of 61 (895554)
07-05-2022 5:14 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Theodoric
07-05-2022 3:55 PM


Re: Why don't you try to.make an actual argument to discuss.
If I made a comment about mass shootings in America without providing links to articles about mass shootings and someone answered my comment by wondering "what mass shootings?" and demanding references, how would you feel about that person?
And if I then gave them references and their answer was something condescending like, "Was that so hard? That is how we do things in this forum," how would you feel about that person?
It calls to mind another line from a book by Orwell: "Ignorance is Strength"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Theodoric, posted 07-05-2022 3:55 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Theodoric, posted 07-05-2022 6:32 PM Sarah Bellum has replied

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 823
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 30 of 61 (895555)
07-05-2022 5:22 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by PaulK
07-05-2022 3:31 PM


Re: Why don't you try to.make an actual argument to discuss.
A "reversal" would scarcely be necessary. In Dobbs the Supreme Court didn't "ban" abortion, it merely returned us to the (very bad days) of pre-Roe abortion law.
All Congress has to do now is pass a law guaranteeing a right to an abortion. Such a law wouldn't be struck down by the Supreme Court (otherwise it would have already struck down laws in states like Oregon or Vermont).
Democrats have used their pro-abortion stands mostly as fund-raising opportunities. Now it's time for them to actually find out if they stand for what they say they stand for.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by PaulK, posted 07-05-2022 3:31 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by PaulK, posted 07-06-2022 12:14 AM Sarah Bellum has not replied

  
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