COVID vaccine works - we're saved!

vimesey:

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Have a read of this.

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Just a moment...

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If you disagree, present your experimental data.

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Where have I seen this equation before? It is good to see that editors of SCIENCE have finally figured out that there is an "at least one" rule. They should have learned how to apply the rule in this paper Darwinian Evolution Can Follow Only Very Few Mutational Paths to Fitter Proteins. If they had, they could have explained the Weinreich paper and there would be plenty of experimental and empirical evidence to verify the use of the equation this way.Does this equation show that masks are effective? The last paragraph tells when they will be. Since you can't produce the data that masks have been effective, you want me to produce data that masks haven't been effective. Why haven't the institutions that track this kind of data, published their results? It couldn't be that the data shows that there is no significant benefit to the general usage of masks?

vimesey:

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Once again, if you disagree, present your data.

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I have presented as much data as you have presented. By the way, how is that little girl with cancer doing?

vimesey:

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You have presented no data. All you have is a river in Egypt.
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And having kept tabs on the reports on her, she is still doing very well.
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Are you genuinely so conceited, that you would rather a young girl die, than you be wrong ?

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And you have presented no data. I have something much more than a river in Egypt, I have redemption, something which you don't think you need.I am glad that she is doing well.If you think that I would rather a young girl dies, you would be very wrong.

vimesey:

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The data are all there in the references - look them up.
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And she hasn't died. So do you therefore admit you are wrong ?

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Is that why you don't post the data?There are many things that you don't understand. One of those things is that God determines the number of days of our lives. Your hope is that she lives a long life just to prove me wrong. My hope is that she live long enough to know that Jesus Christ is her redeemer, whether she lives only a short time or a long time. No matter what you say, she will die and so will you.

vimesey:

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The data are there - look them up.
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And yes, we all die. But she will live a longer life, thanks to intelligent, kind, brilliant scientists, who have no religious agenda. You're flailing and failing Kleinman - and are pointing to religious dogma with no empirical evidence, in a vain effort to support the crap you've swallowed all your life.
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I'm off to bed now - I'll leave you to carry on with your pathetic mewling.

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If the data was there, you would post it, but you don't.Yes, we all die no matter what science does.And you better wear your mask to bed so that you won't die.

vimesey:

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Well, another day dawns, and we have yet another step forward in the fight against cancer, based on a deep understanding of how million year old retroviruses that have nested in our DNA can be awakened by cancerous cell growth, prompting the immune system to target and fight the cancerous cells. Have a read here:
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Million-year-old viruses help fight cancer, say scientists - BBC News
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and here:
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Antibodies against endogenous retroviruses promote lung cancer immunotherapy | Nature
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Ah, Kleinman - the evidence against your sad religious fantasy just keeps growing and growing, doesn't it ?

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You still haven't posted any data that masks work. When are you going to order people to wear tin foil hats.

vimesey as reported by xongsmith:

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Well, another day dawns...links to new research

xongsmith:

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But the Stupid Asshole will just whine "where's the data?"

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LOL LOL LOL

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So you notice that as well in vimesey's post, no data that masks work?xongsmith doesn't need data or experimentation for his scientific research.

Kleinman:

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Explain to us why influenza vaccines are changed every year.

Percy:

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This has already been done. If you're unsatisfied with the answers already provided in this thread then you should point out where they're wrong or incomplete and provide better answers.

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Where has descent with modification and adaptation been explained?

Kleinman:

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And tell us why Covid vaccines are not 100% effective.

Percy:

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Again, if you're unsatisfied with the answers already provided in this thread then tell us what you believe the correct answers are.

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It's all about descent with modification and adaptation. Vaccines are selection pressures and when you have diversity in the population, vaccines won't be universally effective if resistant variants are in the population.

Kleinman:

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I can't help it if members of your forum jump to conclusions.

Percy:

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We can't help it if you're a font of unsupported self-serving accusations.

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Perhaps so, but I do know how descent with modification and adaptation works. And it is the reason that influenza vaccines have to be changed every year and why Covid vaccines are not 100% effective.

Kleinman:

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Perhaps you think that descent with modification and adaptation increases the efficacy of vaccines (or drugs, or any other kind of selection pressure).

Percy:

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Since no one who's touched on this subtopic has said anything that even remotely hints at such an opinion, it is baffling that you would say this. Your most common strategy seems to be to falsely imply in a mocking way that someone holds an absurd opinion.

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Try not to be so mockable.

Kleinman:

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My position on vaccines is that it is one of the best medical treatments physicians have to offer. But, I also tell my patients that there is a small risk associated with vaccination. The person may have an adverse reaction to the vaccine and that reaction can be severe. My hope is that pharmaceutical companies and government agencies that monitor the production of such drugs will test their products extensively to verify the safety and efficacy of their product. I'm not so sure this happened with the development and marketing of the Covid vaccine...

Percy:

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The covid vaccines were approved early before all safety trials had been completed due to the urgency of dealing with the pandemic. Much more data has been gathered since the vaccines were first introduced.
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This is anecdotal, but while I personally knew people who died of covid, and I know people still suffering long covid, I don't know anyone hurt by the vaccine. Combining that with what can be found online, my impression is that covid vaccines are pretty safe. If you think they're not safe maybe you can tell us what health problems the vaccines are causing, and what active ingredients in the vaccines is suspected of causing them.

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Was the urgency due to fear and overreaction to a perceived threat? I know people that have died after catching influenza. Should all the policies instituted for Covid be instituted for influenza? Vaccines are pretty safe because they undergo extensive testing based on years of experience using these drugs. Fear is not a good reason to discard this experience and push out a vaccine that hasn't been fully tested.

Kleinman:

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...as attested to by the stories of normally healthy people suddenly dying after being given the vaccine.

Percy:

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There's a good reason that anecdotal data is never used in studies. It can certainly be used as justification for initiating further study but is not scientific.

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Why don't the agencies responsible post the data?

Kleinman:

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It takes time to collect this kind of data and I don't think that the pharmaceutical companies and government agencies responsible are highly motivated to collect such data.

Percy:

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A CDC page you might find helpful is Safety of COVID-19 Vaccines. Given the couple hundred million people who have received the vaccine, many also receiving boosters, it would take a million people suffering adverse effects just to reach the .5% level.

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Do the math with your own numbers. 0.5%*100,000,000=500,000 people with adverse reactions for every 100,000,000 vaccinated. How many people got COVID and died from the disease (these numbers are questionable because the death rate from cancer, heart disease, and other causes dropped since COVID is being reported). Then you might understand why some people refused the vaccine, the risk-benefit ratio was not good enough for them to take the vaccine. But people like you want these people to lose their jobs and have them locked up because they will spread a contagious disease. Why not fire and lock up those that got the vaccine but still spread the disease?

xongsmith continues to have difficulty posting the data that general usage of masks was effective in preventing the spread of Covid (or any other infectious disease).

vimesey:

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Took me all of 60 seconds to find this study in The Lancet:
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https://www.sciencedirect.com/...ticle/pii/S0140673620311429
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The data show that masks help to reduce the spread of covid, which helped whilst the vaccine was developed.
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Are you genuinely too scared of being shown to be wrong to do your own research ?
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On the plus side, it's a lot of fun seeing you constantly try to support your fantasies through unevidenced denial and misapplied mathematics.

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Where in your quote do you post the data that shows that the general usage of masks was effective in preventing the spread of Covid (or any other infectious disease).

xongsmith still can't post the data that the general usage of masks prevents the spread of Covid or any other infectious disease.

vimesey:

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It's in the posted piece. Read it.

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From your link: And why can't you post the data that shows that the general usage of masks prevented the spread of Covid or any other infectious disease? If you have the data, post it, but you don't have the data. Perhaps you think everyone should wear hazmat suits?

Tanypteryx:

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Next Kleinman will explain how properly worn masks cause diseases and how they are in fact, the cause of all diseases, but first he's going to shove a UV laser up his ass.

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I'll do that right after you explain how descent with modification and adaptation works. Show us how well-trained a biologist is in science and mathematics.And Tany can't post the data that shows that the general usage of masks prevents the spread of Covid or any other infectious disease either.

Tanypteryx:

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And Kleinman says masks cause all disease.

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I don't say that Tany, I say that you are the typical biologist that doesn't understand how biological evolution works. Of course, you could prove me wrong by explaining how descent with modification and adaptation works. But to do that, you would need some scientific and mathematical training which you haven't gotten.And you still don't post the data that shows that the general usage of masks prevented the spread of Covid or any other infectious diseases.

Tanypteryx:

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Of course you do. Next you'll tell us all about the covid vaccines killing everyone who received it. It's in the math.

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Tany can't post any data that shows that the general usage of masks prevented the spread of Covid or any other infectious diseases, nor can he post any quotes of me where I've said anything that he claims I've said. Too bad Tany can't explain how descent with modification and adaptation works, but that should be expected, he was trained as a biologist.