What's the deal with motor vehicle violations?

You are not correct.Some motor vehicle violations are misdemeanors. And some might be felonies. From a quick search of the MN statutes, failing to stop for a school bus with its stop arm out can be a misdemeanor or gross misdemeanor (169.444); using a device to control a traffic signal without being authorized to do so is also a misdemeanor (169.06). Most other offenses seem to be classified as petty misdemeanors (169.89).Haven't looked for felonies, yet. Several years ago there was a story in the news that a young man had been arrested in the Twin Cities after being unable to prove he was insured. He was put in lockup and there beaten to death by his cellmates.When I was in highschool (college maybe?), I knew a guy who had gotten lost looking for someone's house. A cop was following him as he made three right turns in a row. The cop assumed he was trying to evade him, thought that might mean he was a violent criminal, pulled him over, drew his gun, and ordered him out of the car and to the ground.My father was pulled over for swerving and made to walk a line, touch his nose, etc. He wasn't drunk and got back in the car and drove along.At another time he was fined for not wearing his seat belt.My brother was put on probation for speeding with the punishment for being caught speeding within a year being five nights in the county jail. He decided not to speed.I have been pulled over for failing to signal, a dead headlight, and swerving. In most cases the cop was just making sure I wasn't intoxicated and looking for a quick excuse to check my record and see if he could make an arrest for a warrant or something of that sort. In all cases I cooperated, got a warning, and went on my way. I've also been cited for a violation involved in an accident (my appearance in court got one of the two citations dismissed).The police pull people over, and have a right to do so. Failing to signal could be a sign of driving under the influence, etc. Becoming argumentative makes things worse. A simple request by a police officer to put out a cigarette should be followed by the cigarette going out.Some people just don't know how to react to things and make inconvenient situations bad; make bad situations worse; and worse situations the worst. The police have to have some sort of authority or their job becomes impossible. That means if 'step out of the car' isn't followed by feet on the pavement they must escalate the situation by forcing compliance.And yes, most cops are just jerks. But if you get pulled over, do as asked, and don't make trouble (or have a record), then you can often be on your way; at the very least you don't typically end up beaten by the side of the road.Anyway, as my links above show, some motor vehicle violations are misdemeanors and pretty much all are petty misdemeanors.They aren't 'special crimes', at least not in Minnesota.Edited by Jon, : No reason given.

It only made national headlines because she was black.You never heard of the death of Carl Moyle by his cellmate after being arrested and jailed without incident for driving without insurance. Carl Moyle was white.The arrest of Sandra Bland was far more justified than that of Carl Moyle. Bland took her own life by free choice; Carl Moyle was bludgeoned to death with a metal bar by a man held in jail while awaiting trial for attacking a fellow inmate in prison.The Carl Moyle incident is far more of a travesty of justice and a far more potent example of police abuse of power and failure to protect those they serve.There is simply no explanation for the difference in attention these cases got other than the skin color of the people involved.

That's true for Sandra Bland's as well. In fact, Carl Moyle didn't have to be arrested. But the police cannot maintain authority if they simply let people like Sandra Bland go free after putting up a fuss, starting a struggle, and pretty much resisting every effort by the officers to enforce the law (which is their job).The arrest of Sandra Bland was more reasonable than the arrest of Carl Moyle. Also true of the Sandra Bland incident. And the police don't have to arrest someone who doesn't have insurance. Their hands are pretty much tied when someone becomes as confrontational as Bland did over something as stupid as forgetting to signal her turn.The jailing of Sandra Bland was more reasonable than the jailing of Carl Moyle. The video is kind of irrelevant. I haven't watched it; I'd imagine the news media have earned a nice profit off this story without many people viewing the video. Sandra Bland was being belligerent and was arrestable under any standard and needed to be arrested. Moyle just didn't have car insurance; a legally arrestable offense apparently, but the police can show discretion (as they did when they didn't arrest me for not showing valid insurance). Carl Moyle cooperated at every stage and was killed by someone else. Sandra Bland resisted at every stage and then took her own life.Carl Moyle was more of a victim than Sandra Bland.But white Carl Moyle doesn't sell as many newspapers as black Sandra Bland.Edited by Jon, : No reason given.

That's pretty weak. Of course they would side with the angry public mob. They've learned their lesson to just go along with the angry mob. Moyle's arrest was legally justified.Bland wasn't arrested for refusing to put out her cigarette. Really? You're citing someone who says that? Percy, do you know how often I see people causing traffic problems because they don't use their damn signal light? And all I think is that it would be nice if the police would pull over those people instead of waste time arresting people for smoking pot.Anyone who thinks 'questionable' a cop's decision to stop someone for not signalling a turn is someone whose opinion doesn't matter. And he was white; but you can keep downplaying that if you want.

Apparently that fact was omitted from the orders to hold him for trial.Unfortunately, no one faced any penalties or disciplines for the whole thing (except the guy who beat him to death). Carl's Family's attempt to sue was dismissed:

quote:

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"Moyle Family's Inmate Death Suit Dismissed" from The Wrongful Death Blog:

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A federal judge has dismissed a wrongful-death lawsuit against Sherburne County filed by the family of a man who was murdered more than two years ago while in the county jail.

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U.S. District Court Judge Richard H. Kyle on Wednesday dismissed the claims in federal court, but they could be pursued in state court.

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But Carl Moyle was white. So it wasn't important I guess. A white person being arrested without incident and thrown in a cell with a violent criminal who beats him to death doesn't get as much attention as a black woman starting a fight with a cop over a turn signal and then killing herself in jail.Our country is obsessed with burning in racial tension and the media and civil rights 'leaders'who rake in cash and fame for every arrest, every choking, every shooting, and (now apparently) every suicideare only too happy to stoke the fire.Real misdeeds are ignored. Real solutions overlooked.

Moyle's case was worse than Bland's. Remember, she killed herself and was going to be let go had she not been a 'sassy bitch' (your words). Except all the people who do Edited by Jon, : No reason given.

I wonder why that article doesn't include a description of the shooter.You think it'd be helpful given the fella is still at large.

Was there another case lately that involved a person being shot during a traffic stop for a blown taillight?

My point is that you can't build an argument by just making shit up.

Of course it's good advice.As others have pointed out, the sidewalk or side of the road are not the places to be trying to figure out whether you're suffering some technical violation of rights by the police.Take the stand in the court room, not with the cops.

And your argument will be as good as your hypotheticals.In this case Dogmafood's hypotheticals are complete bullshit. And so are his conclusions.

And nothing could have stopped that because when it looks to any normal person like you might be going for a gun, the police cannot wait till its pointing at their face to see if it really is a gun before taking action.It's a misunderstanding. But a misunderstanding the police have to make in order to do their jobs safely.Canipe should have stayed in his truck. Same as above. Jones shouldn't have gone back to reach in his car. The cop cannot wait till the gun's in his face. does not count as argue your rights in the court room and not on the side of the road. Pointing guns at the police, whether real or fake, is taking my advice? Get a real example, jeesh. Again, get a real example. You gave no such examples. You gave two examples of people reacting inappropriately in a police encounter and two more of people waving around gunswhich doesn't require the police to give orders before shooting. I don't think any of that nonsense. I think if you're going to act like an idiot in an encounter with someone who must reasonably treat every situation as potentially life-threatening and who's trained to shoot first, then you need to be prepared to be shot first.If you really want to talk about examples of unreasonable policing, present some examples of unreasonable policing; not just examples where hindsight showed police judgement to be wrong.

Again, where is this happening?

What alternative do you propose?In any situation the police have to decide quickly whether they or others are at risk and act on that decision. Sometimes the police get it wrong. But we are only making right/wrong judgement after the fact. During the encounter there is no time for an officer to deliberately make that judgement and the only standard you can expect anyone to apply is the standard of 'shoot you before you shoot me'.Your argument amounts to wanting the police to know the future.Your argument amounts to nonsense.

What's wrong with you?The interaction did not have only two possible outcomes. It wasn't a choice of hearing 'show me your license' and standing there like a fool doing nothing or dodging into the car to grab them.In every of these interactions there was a more favorable outcome, and that more favorable outcome would have been realized by following the advice I have mentioned: realizing interactions with police can be dangerous and doing nothing to give them reason to go into 'shoot you before you shoot me' mode.And sometimes mistakes are just made and nothing can be done about it.Had Lee been waving around a real gun and shot and killed one of the officers, everyone would be wondering why the cops just stood there waiting to be shot at. Like I told Dogmafood, your hindsight may be 20/20, but the police don't have that luxury and so in a moment like that the police react in the same way any reasonable person would by figuring that it's probably better to accidentally kill you than for you to intentionally kill them. Of course not. Tamir Rice deserved no time. If you're waving the gun as the cops pull up, you've killed yourself.Again, had Tamir Rice had a real gun and shot the cops as they pulled up, everyone would wonder why they just diddled themselves while he waved it about.Our judgement after the fact is perfect, but police don't have that luxury, and the fact that you want to hold them accountable as though they do makes you the liar and complete idiot.Of course, if you had any other examples (as I requested) of actual police misconduct, we could discuss them without arguing about whether they are good examples or not. I'm sure there are plenty.But I think you just want to emote like a little girl; so I'll leave you to it.