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Author Topic:   First side effect of the gay marriage ruling
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9201
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 5 of 98 (761152)
06-28-2015 8:25 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by marc9000
06-28-2015 7:39 PM


Now that gay marriage is legal in all 50 states, doesn't this ruling now mean that ALL states must recognize concealed carry permission, no matter what state issued the permit?
No. Because the ruling was about marriage, not guns. Your OP is stunning in its ridiculousness. There was nothing in the court case and nothing in the ruling about the second amendment. Most people were able to figure that out, cuz, it was about marriage.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by marc9000, posted 06-28-2015 7:39 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9201
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


(3)
Message 6 of 98 (761154)
06-28-2015 8:27 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by marc9000
06-28-2015 7:58 PM


Like the fact you need a license to get married.
Maybe you should stop while you are behind.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by marc9000, posted 06-28-2015 7:58 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9201
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 26 of 98 (761249)
06-29-2015 8:53 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by marc9000
06-29-2015 8:28 PM


Maybe you don't understand how it works. You should be posting arguments that support your stance.
You are in violation of forum rules by posting a bare link. That being said the link you posted does not support your argument.
quote:
Moreover, by using these spurious arguments, advocates like this harm the overall movement for gun rights. Bad arguments can create bad precedents that could impair the expansion of the right to self defense.
This is from a fellow at the Cato Institute, which is as libertarian as think tanks get.
I advised you to quite while you are behind, but seems you want to keep on digging.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by marc9000, posted 06-29-2015 8:28 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9201
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 51 of 98 (761422)
07-01-2015 11:24 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by New Cat's Eye
07-01-2015 10:11 AM


But I doubt it, so I'm just going to keep thinking that you're retarded and stop.
That is a very offensive comment. I know you don't care about how you offend people, but the term "retarded" is now considered by many people as extremely offensive and demeaning. People don't choose to be developmentally disabled, to use the term as an insult is extremely demeaning.
Its too bad that your debating skills have reverted back to where they were when you started to post here.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-01-2015 10:11 AM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9201
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 53 of 98 (761425)
07-01-2015 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by PaulK
07-01-2015 11:25 AM


Maybe he can provide cites for this fundamental right to carry.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by PaulK, posted 07-01-2015 11:25 AM PaulK has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by jar, posted 07-01-2015 11:28 AM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9201
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 58 of 98 (761436)
07-01-2015 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by jar
07-01-2015 11:28 AM


Well others would think differently. Does the 2nd amendment allow for open carry in any public place? Where should people be allowed to open carry? Home? Hunting? Walmart?
It is not black and white no matter what you and Cat Sci may think. Where is the cite showing people should be able to open carry everywhere they want?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by jar, posted 07-01-2015 11:28 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by jar, posted 07-01-2015 12:30 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9201
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 67 of 98 (761468)
07-01-2015 4:15 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by jar
07-01-2015 12:30 PM


You need to quit being such an ass and make your statements clear so people understand you. You are not impressing anyone with your cryptic responses.
I would think that the term "keep and bear" would mean carry.
It really is that simple.
No it isn't that simple. And yes your response was black and white, as shown by you saying "It really is that simple"
It seems many states do not consider carry a fundamental right. These states either do not allow open carry or there is some sort of restriction or licensing, CA, CO(Denver), CT, FL, GA, HI, IL, IN, IA, MA, MD, MN, NE, NJ, NY, ND, OK, OR, RI, SC, TN, UT, VA.
So as you can see many states do not equate "right to bear arms" with a fundamental right to carry.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by jar, posted 07-01-2015 12:30 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by jar, posted 07-02-2015 9:48 AM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9201
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 70 of 98 (761473)
07-01-2015 4:45 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by Modulous
07-01-2015 4:22 PM


Concealed carry is not a recognized fundamental right.
Marc gave us a link that actually destroys his and CS's arguments.
http://www.ijreview.com/...nationwide-legal-experts-weigh-in
Here are some opinions by legal experts
quote:
In particular, the Supreme Court has not ruled that having a concealed carry permit is a personal choice central to individual dignity and autonomy. It hasn’t even (so far) ruled that the right to conceal-carry (as opposed to the right to mere possession of arms in the home) is protected by the Second Amendment. The portion of the majority opinion that deals with state recognition of same-sex marriages performed out of state is based on the notion that: If States are required by the Constitution to issue marriage licenses to same-sex marriage licenses to same-sex couples, the justifications for refusing to recognize those marriages performed elsewhere are undermined.
But, in the case of concealed carry permits, the Court has never ruled that states are required to issue them to their own citizens.
quote:
No. The Obergefell Court applied the Due Process Clause to certain personal choices central to personal dignity and autonomy. I doubt that the Court would interpret that phrase to encompass a federal constitutional right to concealed carry. Nor would the Court rule that any right enforceable under the laws of, say, 36 states must therefore be extended to the remaining states.
Simply put concealed carry and marriage rights are fundamentally different things. Maybe the Supreme Court will some day say concealed carry or any carry is a fundamental right, but as of now that has not happened.
quote:
his is silly, and it represents not even a cursory understanding of either the Constitution or the judicial process. If proponents want to bring a case on concealed carry and cite the Obergefell opinion, they are free to, and judges will be equally free to reject their arguments. In no way does the gay marriage automatically convey a right to concealed carry in 50 states.
Moreover, by using these spurious arguments, advocates like this harm the overall movement for gun rights. Bad arguments can create bad precedents that could impair the expansion of the right to self defense.
These are not opinions from some wide eyed liberals. These are from the Cato institute, a libertarian think tank.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by Modulous, posted 07-01-2015 4:22 PM Modulous has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9201
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 95 of 98 (761599)
07-02-2015 10:27 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by jar
07-02-2015 9:48 AM


Boy you have changed the argument completely haven't you. As some states don't allow carry at all would seem to defeat your argument. Then again morphing arguments seems to be your hallmark.
So is carrying a weapon a fundamental right? Can you provide any sort of court rulings?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by jar, posted 07-02-2015 9:48 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by jar, posted 07-03-2015 8:13 AM Theodoric has not replied

  
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