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Author Topic:   God’s glitch in Eden. A & E had to break God’s second command to accomplish the first
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 95 (703846)
07-30-2013 2:41 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Greatest I am
07-28-2013 11:07 AM


Yet God not only failed to give Adam a mate, a glaring idiocy by any measure, until Genesis 2 but also did not give Adam the desire to reproduce till Adam gained that desire on his own by ignoring God’s immoral command to basically remain in ignorant bliss and stupid.
I have to take issue with your attempt at a literal translation of Genesis. I'm sure by now you are tired of me not meeting your questions head on. But I don't really see an alternative here.
I don't see any evidence that God commanded Adam to reproduce before he provided Adam with a mate or before Adam and Ever were kicked out of the garden.
Yes, Genesis 1 does include command to be fruitful and multiply, but that command is mentioned after the statements that men and women were created. Genesis 2 adds no details that provide us with anything to counter the idea that God did things in a reasonable order. In short, there no foolproof way to merge the details of Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 to verify that God did the silly stuff you attribute to him. Perhaps a more reasonable approach would be to try to reject a fitting together that actually is logical.
Further, there is absolutely no indication one way of the other regarding whether Adam and Eve had sexual relations prior to the serpent incident.
It's also pretty clear that not every detail of what happened is discussed in those early chapters of Genesis. Where did all of those people come from that Cain feared would kill him after he killed his brother? Where did Enoch's wife come from?
I also have to note that a literal reading of Genesis 1 and 2 makes no sense anyway and that we know stuff did not happen as described. So why nit pick these particular details?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Greatest I am, posted 07-28-2013 11:07 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Greatest I am, posted 07-30-2013 10:49 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 31 of 95 (703923)
07-30-2013 10:30 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Greatest I am
07-30-2013 10:49 AM


If they would have then they would not have suddenly covered up their genitals after their eyes were opened.
So your opinion is that adults learning what their genitals were for makes them ashamed of themselves? In my opinion, that's pretty inane. Do you suppose that all of that time Adam spent naming the animals did not provide him any clue as to what a penis was?
It seems likely that Adam at least, knew exactly what his Johnson could do, and that only his disobedience made him ashamed of having sex.
And the fact still remains that there is no Biblical support for the idea that God commanded Adam to be fruitful before there was even an Eve and every reason to believe that Genesis does not say that God was an idiot.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Greatest I am, posted 07-30-2013 10:49 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by Greatest I am, posted 08-04-2013 11:28 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 60 of 95 (704264)
08-07-2013 3:42 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by Greatest I am
08-05-2013 12:35 PM


Bad assumptions lead to bad conclusions
Does sex have good and evil aspects?
If so then A & E could not know of it as they knew nothing of anything that had good and evil aspects.
The above reasoning along with some of your other assumptions does indeed lead to the conclusion that some of God's actions in Genesis 1 and 2 were irrational.
You should at least consider that maybe it is your own assumptions that are irrational.
Your basic assumption here seems to be that the knowledge of sex is what Adam and Eve learned from eating of the forbidden tree. You are not the first person to suggest that. But the problem with it is that it leads to Genesis not being rational.
The truth is that sex does not have any evil aspects. None. Adultery is bad, sex with children is bad, but sex itself is not evil.
A car is not bad, but drinking and driving is bad, driving recklessly is bad, driving too fast for conditions is bad. The car itself has no evil aspects, yet you can do evil acts with a car. Or with a stick, or a bowl of jello.
It is simply not a Biblical conclusion that sex is evil.
As for your reasoning regarding a 12 year old daughter, that attempt at an argument is ridiculous on its face. Anyone who teaches a 12 year old that sex is evil is committing child abuse. I did not want my 12 year old son or daughter to have sex. But I didn't teach them that doing so would send them to Hell, as you seem to be suggesting I must do.
What do you think non-Christians tell their kids?
The idea that sex is evil is simply non Biblical. It is utterly incompatible with a commandment to be fruitful and multiply. Regardless of whether you believe or do not believe the Bible to be literally true, this particular argument in favor of the Bible being wrong is total crap. It is your interpretation of the Bible that is wrong.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Greatest I am, posted 08-05-2013 12:35 PM Greatest I am has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 72 of 95 (704607)
08-12-2013 1:29 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by Greatest I am
08-10-2013 8:55 PM


I said it had good and evil aspects and it does.
I provided arguments (i.e. not mere assertion like you do here) that sex has no evil aspects. But of course you ignored the argument to simply re-assert your ridiculous premise. At this point I think it is safe to assume that you have no real arguments.
Does a rock have evil aspects just because you can kill someone good with a rock? Nope. A rock isn't evil and has no evil aspects. But perhaps throwing a rock through someone's window is evil.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Greatest I am, posted 08-10-2013 8:55 PM Greatest I am has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 73 of 95 (704609)
08-12-2013 1:33 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by Straggler
08-12-2013 12:23 PM


If adam had been inclined such that the parade of animals before him had supplied a "suitable helper" human history would be very very different.
Yes. All of human history would fit into a single volume. The "Diary of Adam"

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Straggler, posted 08-12-2013 12:23 PM Straggler has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by jar, posted 08-12-2013 1:41 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 81 of 95 (704735)
08-15-2013 2:38 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by Greatest I am
08-14-2013 7:20 PM


Thus sex has an evil application and thus A & E could not know of it.
Using your ridiculous reasoning, Adam could not know about anything. Rocks, snakes, trees, etc. Yet he clearly knew some things. This seeming contradiction is a direct result of your interpretation of the workings of the tree of knowledge. Fix that and we can end this thread on a positive note.
Have you ever encountered the idea of proof by contradiction? You've laid out a classic case of it, but for some reason you are unable to understand the QED part of the proof.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I believe that a scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy.
Richard P. Feynman
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by Greatest I am, posted 08-14-2013 7:20 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by arachnophilia, posted 08-20-2013 7:14 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied
 Message 86 by Greatest I am, posted 08-23-2013 4:16 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
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