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Author Topic:   German judge rules child circumcision as child abuse.
jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 3 of 410 (666646)
06-29-2012 10:55 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by Jazzns
06-29-2012 10:44 AM


Re: Should be outlawed
I'm not sure how circumcision and female genital mutilation are at all comparable.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Jazzns, posted 06-29-2012 10:44 AM Jazzns has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Rahvin, posted 06-29-2012 11:07 AM jar has replied
 Message 5 by Jazzns, posted 06-29-2012 11:11 AM jar has seen this message but not replied
 Message 6 by Kairyu, posted 06-29-2012 11:18 AM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 7 of 410 (666655)
06-29-2012 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Rahvin
06-29-2012 11:07 AM


Re: Should be outlawed
General reply to all.
And your point?
The risk factor is extremely low.
There is not even much risk of future psychological trauma.
I'm sorry but this just sounds like a bunch of folk trying to find yet another thing to whine about.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Rahvin, posted 06-29-2012 11:07 AM Rahvin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Rahvin, posted 06-29-2012 11:31 AM jar has replied
 Message 15 by Jazzns, posted 06-29-2012 1:12 PM jar has replied
 Message 20 by Panda, posted 06-29-2012 1:39 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 10 of 410 (666658)
06-29-2012 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Rahvin
06-29-2012 11:31 AM


Re: Should be outlawed
Nonsense.
Removing moles, even birthmarks is not considered child abuse.
But if you are upset, then fine. But I honestly don't see a problem.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Rahvin, posted 06-29-2012 11:31 AM Rahvin has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 16 of 410 (666669)
06-29-2012 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Jazzns
06-29-2012 1:12 PM


Re: Should be outlawed
No, I stand for the position that circumcision is not Genital Mutilation.
It really is that simple.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Jazzns, posted 06-29-2012 1:12 PM Jazzns has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Jazzns, posted 06-29-2012 1:32 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 19 of 410 (666672)
06-29-2012 1:39 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Jazzns
06-29-2012 1:32 PM


Re: Should be outlawed
Correct, since circumcision is not genital mutilation it is none of my business and should be left up to the parents and their doctors.
That would depend on the specific female procedure and once that was determined then I would decide if I considered it mutilation or not.
In general though my position is that unless a very compelling reason can be shown to outlaw any procedure that it is simply none of my business and should be left entire up to the family and their doctors.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Jazzns, posted 06-29-2012 1:32 PM Jazzns has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Jazzns, posted 06-29-2012 1:53 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 22 of 410 (666676)
06-29-2012 1:46 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Panda
06-29-2012 1:39 PM


Re: Should be outlawed
On Tattoos, I have no opinion and so believe that should be left up to the parents and their doctors.
On breast implants for 10 year olds...see above.
I believe that I am not qualified to make judgements about what other folk do, but maybe that is only a humanists point of view.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Panda, posted 06-29-2012 1:39 PM Panda has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by crashfrog, posted 06-29-2012 2:22 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 27 of 410 (666686)
06-29-2012 2:08 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Jazzns
06-29-2012 1:53 PM


Re: Should be outlawed
What conditions do you have before something, anything is considered child abuse that society has a vested interest in stopping?
Well first, I would need to be convinced that it is child abuse.
How about removal of the clitoral hood, one of the tamer versions of female circumcision. The one most akin to male circumcision. Would you be okay with that if the risks were the same as male circumcision?
Again, that should be left up to the parents and their doctors. It really is none of my business.
What about branding? Would you be okay with parents branding their kids for religious reason? What about slicing off the pads of their fingertips? Okay with you? Neither of those things would leave a kid disfunctional and done properly would be very low risk.
Yup, okay with me. Those seem really none of my business.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Jazzns, posted 06-29-2012 1:53 PM Jazzns has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 31 of 410 (666693)
06-29-2012 2:24 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by crashfrog
06-29-2012 2:22 PM


Re: Should be outlawed
That would depend on the specific individual circumstances. I don't think a child though has many rights.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by crashfrog, posted 06-29-2012 2:22 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by crashfrog, posted 06-29-2012 4:52 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 36 of 410 (666698)
06-29-2012 2:29 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by crashfrog
06-29-2012 2:26 PM


Re: Should be outlawed
Or is it just that you don't believe there's any such thing as a human right?
I don't believe there is any such thing as a human right except those established by a State, culture or society and those rights are peculiar to that State, culture or society.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by crashfrog, posted 06-29-2012 2:26 PM crashfrog has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by Kairyu, posted 06-29-2012 3:28 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 91 of 410 (666762)
06-29-2012 4:49 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Kairyu
06-29-2012 3:28 PM


Re: Should be outlawed
I don't believe in "human rights", as I said, except those established by a State, culture or society.
Yes, in the area under jurisdiction of that German judge, circumcision is declared to be child abuse.
Fortunately I do not live in Germany.
Nor am I pro-circumcision.
I simply do not think I should have the right to tell another parent that they should not have their son circumcised.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Kairyu, posted 06-29-2012 3:28 PM Kairyu has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by xongsmith, posted 06-29-2012 5:00 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 101 of 410 (666775)
06-29-2012 5:10 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by crashfrog
06-29-2012 4:52 PM


Re: Should be outlawed
Well, so far I have seen no evidence that circumcision causes any harm to the child.
Is it painful? Yes, but so are many other things that are a part of being a baby.
I simply don't think I have a right to tell some other parent whether or not they can have their son, circumcised.
I don't think anyone has any innate right to bodily integrity.
When is comes to the issue of sexual abuse, I think we (speaking of the US) have gone way to far and become quite neurotic over the issue; however, as a State, culture or society we currently are in that neurotic and absurd position when that issue is considered. Again, it depends on the exact circumstances of each peculiar incident.
That does not mean that I favor exploitation of children for sex or that the parent has a blanket right to force sex on a child.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by crashfrog, posted 06-29-2012 4:52 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by crashfrog, posted 06-29-2012 5:24 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 104 of 410 (666778)
06-29-2012 5:12 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by xongsmith
06-29-2012 5:00 PM


Re: Should be outlawed
I generally ignore sophomoric points.
Your post qualifies.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by xongsmith, posted 06-29-2012 5:00 PM xongsmith has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 116 of 410 (666791)
06-29-2012 5:34 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by crashfrog
06-29-2012 5:24 PM


Re: Should be outlawed
You may think I have that right, but I simply do not think I have that right.
My basis for my beliefs are my own personal experience and moral system as well as the ethos of the society I live in.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by crashfrog, posted 06-29-2012 5:24 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(2)
Message 182 of 410 (666917)
07-01-2012 10:46 AM


Culture
What is wrong with "Culture" as a justification of "circumcision"?
If your culture thinks it is "mutilation" then simply do not circumcise your children.
But if another culture believes circumcision is not mutilation and that it should be done, then why should YOUR culture take precedence?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Replies to this message:
 Message 183 by bluegenes, posted 07-01-2012 11:23 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 184 of 410 (666920)
07-01-2012 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 183 by bluegenes
07-01-2012 11:23 AM


Re: Culture
But we are not talking about everything, rather about circumcision.
Nothing else is even relevant.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by bluegenes, posted 07-01-2012 11:23 AM bluegenes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 185 by bluegenes, posted 07-01-2012 11:42 AM jar has replied

  
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