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Author Topic:   An Atheist By Any Other Name . . .
Theodoric
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Posts: 9202
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 22 of 209 (657589)
03-29-2012 1:08 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Heathen
03-29-2012 9:50 AM


Re: ...is still an Atheist
I think the author realises this, and he states that he wants to reclaim (or claim) the word.
My point in the other thread. You are trying to give new meaning to the word heathen.
any connotations it may have/have had are not so fresh in the psyche.
Where does this idea that heathen has no negative connotations come from? Why is it more palatable than atheist? Why do you think there is a more palatable term and why is it needed?
It isn't the term the public at large has an issue with, it is that we do not believe in their sky fairies or what ever other supernatural god thing they believe in.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Heathen, posted 03-29-2012 9:50 AM Heathen has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by Heathen, posted 04-02-2012 2:19 AM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9202
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 76 of 209 (658082)
04-02-2012 8:43 AM
Reply to: Message 75 by Heathen
04-02-2012 2:19 AM


Re: ...is still an Atheist
So we should exchange one word with negative connotations with another word with negative connotations.
In the words of Billy Connolly
"Brilliant, just f'ing brilliant"

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Heathen, posted 04-02-2012 2:19 AM Heathen has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Heathen, posted 04-02-2012 8:57 AM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9202
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 78 of 209 (658085)
04-02-2012 9:08 AM
Reply to: Message 77 by Heathen
04-02-2012 8:57 AM


Re: ...is still an Atheist
You seem to have assumed that this is all somehow my idea or that I am an apologist for it.
You seem to have taken my criticisms personally. That is your issue not mine. I have pointed out issues I have had with the concepts presented by the author and yourself. If you do not support the authors ideas quit defending them.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Heathen, posted 04-02-2012 8:57 AM Heathen has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by Heathen, posted 04-02-2012 9:19 AM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9202
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 80 of 209 (658090)
04-02-2012 9:34 AM
Reply to: Message 79 by Heathen
04-02-2012 9:19 AM


Re: ...is still an Atheist
The only issue you seem to have is the use of the word heathen, this is a minor part of the article as presented, yet you seem hung up on it.
As the topic of this thread is about names for Atheists , why would I be discussing anything about the article but the use of Heathen for Atheist.
Other issues about the article were discussed on the other thread as is right. I think others did a very good job tearing it down in that thread.
I am not sure I know what you expect people to do when they disagree with you and the arguments you bring to the forum. Do you want me to agree with you? Probably ain't going to happen on this issue.
I agree the following should be for the other thread but as you posted it here I will answer here.
Do you understand the intent of the author when he talks about finding an alternative title?
Yes, but I think it is unnecessary and ultimate stupid and harmful.
Do you understand what he means when he talks about "Reclaiming" a word in the same way the originally derogatory words 'Gay' or 'Methodist' or 'Quaker' were reclaimed by the people they describe?
Yes, but I think he is doing a little revisionism and presenting a skewed reality of these terms. I find huge issues with his idea that these people "reclaimed" these terms. Sounds like some new age scholarship woo.
Do you understand that the meanings of words can and do change over time depending on their use? eg "Gay"
Quit being insulting. It demeans any semblance of an argument you have.
You can answer in the other thread, but I doubt you will have anything new to support the article which you misrepresented from the start.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by Heathen, posted 04-02-2012 9:19 AM Heathen has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by Heathen, posted 04-02-2012 10:12 AM Theodoric has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9202
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


(2)
Message 175 of 209 (658771)
04-09-2012 1:07 PM
Reply to: Message 174 by shadow71
04-09-2012 12:52 PM


Delusion? In a word
I may tell them I think they are wrong. But I don't call them delusional.
What the hell is the difference? Telling them they are wrong means that you think their beliefs are delusional. Are you just hung up on the word delusional?
Ok you are not delusional. You are just totally, utterly, 100% WRONG.
Is that better?
Have you ever looked up the definition for delusional?
quote:
having false or unrealistic beliefs or opinions
Source
How is that different from "wrong"?
Why are so many christians ok calling other people wrong, but get insulted if anyone even hints they might be just a little not correct in everything they believe.
Christian persecution complex strikes again.
Edited by Theodoric, : subtitle

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by shadow71, posted 04-09-2012 12:52 PM shadow71 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 176 by shadow71, posted 04-09-2012 1:35 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9202
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 177 of 209 (658774)
04-09-2012 1:44 PM
Reply to: Message 176 by shadow71
04-09-2012 1:35 PM


Re: Delusion? In a word
When I tell someone I believe his or her beliefs are wrong I am telling them that I don't agree with their beliefs.
If I tell them there beliefs are delusional I am telling them they are in false and against all of the facts.
So when you tell them you think they are wrong you don't believe their beliefs are false or against all facts??
So what do you think about these beliefs you think are wrong? That they are correct and comport to facts? Then why would you think they are wrong.
To me there is a big difference between wrong and delusional.
What you think has no bearing on reality does it.
Edited by Theodoric, : remove extraneous ? mark

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by shadow71, posted 04-09-2012 1:35 PM shadow71 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 188 by shadow71, posted 04-09-2012 7:42 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9202
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


(2)
Message 190 of 209 (658808)
04-09-2012 8:35 PM
Reply to: Message 188 by shadow71
04-09-2012 7:42 PM


Re: Delusion? In a word
See message 183
typical fundie response don't address the post. Post some quote from somebody that you claim is an authority and claim victory. What Anthony Flew has to say means nothing. It is his opinion nothing more. The way he was used by christians duting his doddering old age is disgusting and offensive.
If you don't want to debate, don't waste our time.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 188 by shadow71, posted 04-09-2012 7:42 PM shadow71 has seen this message but not replied

  
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