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Author Topic:   Rep. Virgil Goode, R-Va. says a Muslum should not use Qur'an during swearing in
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 20 of 32 (372088)
12-24-2006 9:12 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by jar
12-21-2006 6:51 PM


Options: Not that difficult
So should we force Muslims to use the Bible instead or the Qur'an, a Jew to use the Bible instead of the Torah (although I imagine a Jew would prefer nothing)?
If someone wants to swear in using the Qur'an, the Bible, Bill Clinton's autobiography, or nothing at all, that should be their prerogative.
Personally I don't see what the big stink is about in either case. If the Muslim wants to swear in using the Qur'an, let him. If Goode wants to argue his point, let him.

"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by jar, posted 12-21-2006 6:51 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Omnivorous, posted 12-24-2006 9:40 PM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 23 by jar, posted 12-24-2006 10:49 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 21 of 32 (372089)
12-24-2006 9:16 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by U can call me Cookie
12-22-2006 5:59 AM


Swearing and doing
I don't see why people need to swear an oath on anything in the first place.
Good point. Its just a dog and pony show. Even Jesus told us not to swear at all, but let our yes mean, yes, and our no mean, no. Simple enough. I mean, yes, there is some purpose to it. When you declare the oath, you are telling the world that you will fulfill your obligations in a professional manner and that going against it can indict you later on. Other than that, its just a show.

"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by U can call me Cookie, posted 12-22-2006 5:59 AM U can call me Cookie has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 24 of 32 (372167)
12-25-2006 11:35 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Omnivorous
12-24-2006 9:40 PM


Re: Options: Not that difficult
I wonder, though, a little bit about the tone of "the Muslim"
Wonder til your hearts content. I wonder if you would wonder had it been a Christian and I said, "The Christian." I only said the Muslim because I don't remember his name.
Though I agree that Goode has the right to speak his mind, his comments about immigration are patently dishonest, since they are irrelevant, and his remarks about how past swearing-in ceremonies have been conducted are patently dishonest because they lead folks to believe that Goode is planning something unprecedented and radical.
Bringing up immigration in this instance is completely irrelevant. And citing how ceremonies have usually been conducted is pointless. I would feel like I was doing a disservice to everyone by obligating them to place an oath on something they don't believe in. Lets think about that for a moment. The whole point of placing your hand over the Bible was to convict you to take your oath seriously. If someone does not take the Bible seriously, then what purpose does it serve? Obviously this would be vice versa for non-Muslims asked to place their hand over a tome they don't feel convicted about.
To the extent that his xenophobia confirms the strongest doubts about America's intentions among the world's Muslims, he has betrayed not just the ideals but also the best interests of his own nation.
Most Americans are stuck between a rock and a hard place for two central reasons. First, we are taught that we are the great melting pot where Lady Justice says, "Give me your tired, give me your poor huddled masses yearning to be free." There was a time when that act of kindness was met with respect and gratitude. In today's time, there has been a bastardization of that philosophy because its no longer a virtue to be esteemed. Now its looked upon as a birth right to be trodden, abused, and disrespected. And the Lady who stands sentinel in New York harbor grows more and more weary with cynicism everyday. She wants to do the right thing but sure wished that those huddled masses would show an ounce of respect for her borders.
The reasonable middle ground is not the mid-point between right and wrong: Goode is wrong. He is pandering to the worst of human impulses, the hatred and fear of difference.
I agree that he is operating on possibly all of those notions and that its not only a stupid move politically, but its just distasteful as a human being. I agree that he probably has allowed hatred to fester in his heart, and he may have a fear of anything different; perhaps he grew up with such a Good 'Ole Boy mentality. But if he is anything like your average American, his fear is that his country is going to hell in a handbasket. He might be looking across the pond and watching how Europe's Politically Correct mentality does not coincide with radical Islam who entrenches itself more every day. Maybe he's just a stupid bigot or maybe he doesn't really want to live in Virginiastan. I can't say for sure. All I can say is that his move is politically unintelligent and socially taboo.
No one has the right to stop "the Muslim" from taking his private oath as he pleases; no one has the right to stop Goode from speaking his mind. But everyone has the right to label Goode's un-American bigotry for what it is, and his constituents have the right to exact a price in the voting booth. I hope they do.
It looks like if Goode could have his way he'd seal up the United States and force the nation to become more of an isolationist nation than North Korea.
Edited by nemesis_juggernaut, : typos

"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Omnivorous, posted 12-24-2006 9:40 PM Omnivorous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by Omnivorous, posted 12-25-2006 4:48 PM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 28 by nator, posted 12-26-2006 9:01 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 27 of 32 (372227)
12-25-2006 10:02 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Omnivorous
12-25-2006 4:48 PM


Re: Options: Not that difficult
You bet I'd wonder. I have defended even fundies on this board (and elsewhere), at some expense. And on the day Christians in the U.S. are a persecuted people, I'll stand with them.
Everybody is persecuted in the U.S. That's what makes this country so great. We persecute our people equally. Well, at least the comedians do.
As for the rest of your reply: it would've been shorter to say, "You're right."
Then: You're right, on both counts. You're right that it would have been shorter and that no one should be forced to place their hand on any document our book if they don't feel convicted to do so.

"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Omnivorous, posted 12-25-2006 4:48 PM Omnivorous has not replied

  
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