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Author Topic:   Can sense organs like the eye really evolve?
frako
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


(1)
Message 4 of 242 (636394)
10-06-2011 8:46 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by ANI
10-06-2011 8:39 AM


i see no problem all you need is a cell that reacts to light and is stimulating a nerve when its hit by light, you dont need a whole region of the brain devoted to despiper the light stimulus in to a picture all you need is a stimuly that shows the critter wheter its light or dark evolution takes over from there to make all kinds of eyes you want and all kind of brain regions that despipher the stimulie of light

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand
Jesus was a dead jew on a stick nothing more

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by ANI, posted 10-06-2011 8:39 AM ANI has not replied

  
frako
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 74 of 242 (636966)
10-12-2011 2:46 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by Robert Byers
10-11-2011 10:04 PM


Ussles eyes under the skin
One of the best long distance eyes
Strange eye
Best Night vision eye
Best motion detection eye
Best all arround view eye
For every situation there is an eye so where is your diversity of eyes lacking?
or do you think that the system of seeing is only possible trough eyes??
Bats use sonar, as do whales.
Some snakes use heatvision
Some sharks also see trough by sensing biolectricity
What is not diverse enough for you???

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand
Jesus was a dead jew on a stick nothing more

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Robert Byers, posted 10-11-2011 10:04 PM Robert Byers has not replied

  
frako
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 84 of 242 (637223)
10-14-2011 7:46 AM
Reply to: Message 75 by Robert Byers
10-14-2011 12:06 AM


Its a evolutionary speculative idea that creatures in evolutionary lineages have the same eyes.
Rather creatures simply have like eyes for like needs. These needs are reflected in many aspects of their anatomy. So then evolution invents they are evolutionary connected.
Rather there is simply limited options for eye types and creatures have like eyes where they are more alike.
your intermediate eyes are not intermediate between anything.
it just shows their is a common blueprint for sight and creatures get the part of that blueprint for sight that they need.
its a flaw in thinking to see different types of sight as indicating progression etc.
Rather they indicate need dictates results within a common blueprint.
On the same note we have tones of wehicles from carts to trains, to cars, to planes, ....... And all use the same round wheel why is that because all these things had the same designer??? or because its the best solution?

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

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frako
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 136 of 242 (638365)
10-21-2011 6:52 PM
Reply to: Message 128 by Robert Byers
10-21-2011 3:05 AM


yust a question um what kind of eye would suit your idea what evolution would produce ???

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by Robert Byers, posted 10-21-2011 3:05 AM Robert Byers has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by IamJoseph, posted 10-24-2011 4:08 AM frako has not replied
 Message 184 by Robert Byers, posted 10-27-2011 6:35 AM frako has replied

  
frako
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 165 of 242 (638756)
10-25-2011 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 163 by Parasomnium
10-25-2011 10:54 AM


Re: Cameras and Eyes
But I agree that the analogy is wearing thin. It's point was to assert that eyes are superior to cameras
But they are not
Eyes firstly are just tthe lense of the camera the eye does not see the brain does.
Eyes do not have flash so they cant make a picture in pich darkness
Eyes cant zoom.
Eyes deteriorate, the lens goes bad, the muscles controlling the lens go bad, stuff grows on them that impairs vision ...., The 50 year old camera i have still works like the day it was bought.
Eyes dont have factory testing some are just broken the day you get them (birth) where every camera has a warranty.
I could go on but eyes are clearly inferior to cameras.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

This message is a reply to:
 Message 163 by Parasomnium, posted 10-25-2011 10:54 AM Parasomnium has not replied

Replies to this message:
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frako
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 185 of 242 (638952)
10-27-2011 7:26 AM
Reply to: Message 184 by Robert Byers
10-27-2011 6:35 AM


then just as there is a little diversity between big groups of types of creatures there would be after all that time fantastic diversity in EYES.
There is but you expect to see square eyes that use sound waves to see that just does not work evolution cant make something that does not work or ever will.
All eyes are round because it works
All eyes have some thing that allows light to enter them because that is how they work
All eyes range in diameter from x cm to y cm because they cant get any smaller, and any larger is a waste of resource
....
...
..
there is only so much diversity an eye can have that utelises its best efficiency for the task.
We dont have the eyes of a Hawk because the need was never selected for that strongly we have the optimum eye for our environment, the positive efects of a hawks eyes are smaller in comparrison for the resources it would use that we spend on other parts, Better eyesight would need a larger portion of the brain devoted to it and so limiting other parts of the brain like the ones responsible for logic and reasoning thus making us actually far less effective at passing on our gens because we would be out competed.
Perhaps what you are really asking is why dont we see different sense organs.
Well we do
You have the eye
The sonar
Normal ear function
taste
tuch
infraread
and you have various ways in the way they are utilized like the snake smelling with its tung.
The eyes of mammals alone should be almost unrecognizable compared to each other.
So how do you really think they should look? Give me an example of the difference one would see.
P.s. i really should not post stuff when im stoned so if all this makes no sense just ignore it

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by Robert Byers, posted 10-27-2011 6:35 AM Robert Byers has not replied

  
frako
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 198 of 242 (639115)
10-28-2011 6:26 AM
Reply to: Message 190 by Robert Byers
10-28-2011 4:56 AM


To imagine other kinds of eyes would require a imagination greater then mine.
I can't imagine how to start of forming concepts and actual eye types to be diverse from the ones I know.
Even if stoned I couldn't. Of coarse i don't use illegal medicines.
Because you believe we should see triangle shaped eyes whitout an opening for light, able to see sound waves
they would not work and not be selected for, or the flaws would be selected against and we would get something similar to the eyes we have TOE.
Edited by frako, : No reason given.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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frako
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


(2)
Message 229 of 242 (640711)
11-12-2011 3:49 AM
Reply to: Message 226 by Portillo
11-11-2011 11:44 PM


Re: Eyes, Remember?
There is no such thing as a simple eye.
Simple Eyes Of Only Two Cells Guide Marine Zooplankton To The Light
http://www.sciencedaily.com/...ases/2008/11/081119140705.htm
So only 2 cells guide the Zooplankton to the Light is this a simple enough eye for you cause i dont think it can get any simpler.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

This message is a reply to:
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