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Author Topic:   Information Theory and Intelligent Design.
cavediver
Member (Idle past 3673 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 41 of 102 (385101)
02-14-2007 5:04 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by Tom Curtis
02-14-2007 2:34 AM


Re: Massless or Baseless
The correct way to state it is that photons have zero rest mass. Also, by definition in relativity, photons are never at rest.
True
As a result they always have a mass
Not true Unless you want to use antiquated terminology from 60 years past. They have "relativistic mass" which is not actually mass at all. They have momentum, hence your solar sail, and from the momentum a mass-like equivalent measure is derived... but it is not mass.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Tom Curtis, posted 02-14-2007 2:34 AM Tom Curtis has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by Tom Curtis, posted 02-14-2007 9:24 AM cavediver has replied

  
cavediver
Member (Idle past 3673 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 68 of 102 (385337)
02-15-2007 7:44 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by Tom Curtis
02-14-2007 9:24 AM


Re: Massless or Baseless
Sorry, this is not on-topic here, so I'll keep my asnwer brief (for me)
I learnt my relativity from popular books
Oh dear But Baez's site is very sound.
First, both formulations "mass equals rest mass" and "mass equals relativistic mass" are formally equivalent. The decision as to which to use is a matter of convenience rather than of fundamental disagreement.
No, absolutely not. Rest mass is an invariant quantity. Relativistic mass is an observer dependent quantity, and hence largely meaningless. If I ask you for your height, what do I expect? A measurement depending on your particular position? On how far away you are from me? On how fast you happen to be moving at that time?
I don't see why we should not use this example to justify the claim that light has mass in general
Because mass is not the only generator of inertia and gravitation. In this case one could say that it is the momentum of the photons that is causing the difference - it is certainly not their mass as that is zero. The trouble is there are too many uses of the word mass being floated around. The "mass" of a composite body is the gravitational "mass" - something that we actually often call stress/energy to avoid confusion. This is very different to the rest mass of a particle and to the relativistic "mass" of a particle.
None-the-less, you are wrong about the definitional convention on mass used by Meyer in his physicality implies mass criterion. Using the convention Meyer must be using if his criterion is to be even coherent, photons do have mass.
Meyer is simply talking nonsense and he has no clue to the real nature of mass and its various defintions - it's not his field. Why would I be intersted in any of his definitions?

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