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Author Topic:   Misunderstanding and Correction or Misrepresentation and Deception
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 61 (617923)
05-31-2011 4:30 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by crashfrog
05-31-2011 4:22 PM


Re: Show Evidence of Deceit
Let me get this straight...
Your position is that because PD wrote this line:
quote:
I think it is an appropriate way to construe it.
directly after all this from you:
quote:
But don't you think that's a pretty narrow way to construe it these days? There's not a lot of competition for Christianity anymore, at least not among polytheistic religions. That's the reason that the passage in Jeremiah is interpreted, in modern theology, to refer to not letting shallow material concerns, like wealth, power, prestige, or influence, supersede more important spiritual concerns.
Then that means that she *had* to be saying that "There's not a lot of competition for Christianity anymore, at least not among polytheistic religions. That's the reason that the passage in Jeremiah is interpreted, in modern theology, to refer to not letting shallow material concerns, like wealth, power, prestige, or influence, supersede more important spiritual concerns" was the appropriate way to consture it?
Also, you're saying that it is impossible that she was responding to "But don't you think that's a pretty narrow way to construe it these days?" with a disagreement that 'no, it wasn't narrow, it was reasonable'?
How could you possibly be so confident unless you had the ability to read her mind?
To me, she intended either this:
CF writes:
But don't you think that's a pretty narrow way to construe it these days?
I think it is an appropriate way to construe it.
or this:
CF writes:
But don't you think that's a pretty narrow way to construe it these days?
I think it *is* an appropriate way to construe it.
And in no way do I see her as agreeing with this line whatsoever:
quote:
There's not a lot of competition for Christianity anymore, at least not among polytheistic religions. That's the reason that the passage in Jeremiah is interpreted, in modern theology, to refer to not letting shallow material concerns, like wealth, power, prestige, or influence, supersede more important spiritual concerns.
Remember, I'm the author of what I wrote.
So what? That doesn't place you in any particularly privileged seat when it comes to what you meant,
Seriously, how the hell not? Nobody *BUT* her can know what she meant... you've got to be the most arrogant person on this board now that Rrhain is gone... for good I hope.
Seriously, how can you possible think that you know more about what a person meant than the person who actually wrote it? That's gotta be the stupidest things I've every seen you type on this forum.
I don't think you believe that one bit but are instead just being a cocky little asshole troll. I think I might just have lost all confidence in believing anything you will ever write again. This is all just one big joke to you and you're sitting there laughing your ass off because people are actually taking you a little bit seriously and thinking you mean what you write.
You *are* a arrogant jerk.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by crashfrog, posted 05-31-2011 4:22 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by crashfrog, posted 05-31-2011 4:53 PM New Cat's Eye has replied
 Message 22 by cavediver, posted 06-01-2011 8:56 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 16 of 61 (617951)
05-31-2011 5:31 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by crashfrog
05-31-2011 4:53 PM


Re: Show Evidence of Deceit
Because "I think that's an appropriate way to construe it" is a sentence that signals agreement with whatever was just said.
Not necessarily. For example, in the post in question, PD was responding to the first line and not the paragraph that followed it.
"I think that's an appropriate way to construe it" is a sentence that clearly indicates agreement. If PD had really meant to reply to the question in the negative, she would have written a negative sentence that followed the question, not a positive sentence that followed a paragraph.
Not necessarily. She *did* mean to reply in the negetive, and she *did not* write a negative sentence that immediatly followed the question but istead used a positive sentence that followed the paragraph after the line she was replying to...
Because I have the ability to read her words. What she actually wrote is much more reliable guide to what she meant when she wrote it than anything she has later to say about what she meant when she wrote it.
Bullshit. It is impossible for you to distinguish what she actually meant better than herself, as exemplified by this thread.
If she genuinely made an error in expressing her intent, that's fine. If that really happened I've stated several times that I'm prepared to accept it.
It was simply an error in your interpretation.
I do think that her reply was worded badly, badly formatted, and even a little bit ambiguous, but its very obvious what she intended to say. Especially in light of her explanation of herself.
But, she's adamant that she said exactly what she intended to say. Thus, I'm forced to reject her subsequent insistence that I've somehow misinterpreted her. She said what she intended to say - by her own admission! - and what she said was that she agreed with how I'd construed the passage.
Trolling lies.
Because it's not. The author dies as soon as he writes.
Bullshit.
The person you were when you wrote something isn't the person you are, now, to later talk about writing it. The author's statements of intention are really irrelevant to the interpretation of the text.
Ergo, no confession has ever been used in court because the defendant must be a different person than the one that confessed. I'm not detecting any honesty here.
Seriously, I can't be the only one here trained in literary criticism, can I?
This isn't literary criticism and the author is capable of speaking for herself to tell us what she actually meant and exactly how you've misinterpreted it. You couldn't be more obviously incorrect nor more blatanlty showing your unreasonableness and inability to admit errors of interpretation.
You've honestly never heard of the Intentional Fallacy?
quote:
..."the design or intention of the author is neither available nor desirable as a standard for judging the success of a work of literary art."
Irrelevant. We're not judging the success of a work of literary art. I believe you've never studied this and simply looked it up in wiki, possibly for the first time ever today.
Reasons for not committing the Intentional Fallacy:
Are also irrelevant.
Besides, we have PD here, herself, telling us what she meant and clearly exposing how and why you misinterpreted it. You are the only person who cannot see it.
Just because you wrote something, doesn't give you any particular insight into what it meant when you wrote it. Obviously.
Obviously totally false and the last ditch resort of a lying troll who can't bring himself to admit that he was wrong in interpreting something. Especially not when he's in this deep.
I'm continually surprised by this insistence that I'm somehow arrogant.
You think that your interpretation of some words somebody pecked into a text box is more accurate than their own explanation of what they meant and where you went wrong.
The arragance is blatant.
But I'm continually suspicious of my own ability to accurately apprehend things.
Not in the slightest. You think that you are right and that there's no possible way that you could be wrong about this. Or you're just trolling.
I honestly think its both. I can hardly believe a single word you type anymore.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by crashfrog, posted 05-31-2011 4:53 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by crashfrog, posted 06-10-2011 1:20 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 23 of 61 (618086)
06-01-2011 10:22 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by cavediver
06-01-2011 8:56 AM


Re: Show Evidence of Deceit
But she didn't and Crash doesn't. End of. Cannot believe there is any possible discussion over this.
So, what do you think is wrong with him?
I'm doubting his sincerity... that he doesn't really believe that he's right, he's just arguing for the sake of it. As if he's just trolling.
Or do you think that he really thinks he's right here? And if so, doesn't that stem from arrogance and/or conceit?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by cavediver, posted 06-01-2011 8:56 AM cavediver has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by cavediver, posted 06-01-2011 11:32 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 25 of 61 (618100)
06-01-2011 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by cavediver
06-01-2011 11:32 AM


Re: Show Evidence of Deceit
Ah, psychology - well above my pay grade, I'm afraid
Pussy!
Now if only Holmes were here to straigten it all out. Crash always listened to him...
I know, right!
I think its just hilarious that he used to bash heads with Holmes and Rrhain for doing the exact same shit that he is doing here now.
Oh, and the whole " I used to study english " bullshit is soooo Rrhain....
... "I was trained to interpret writing so I know better what they mean"...
Remember that stuff?
Edited by Catholic Scientist, : No reason given.
Edited by Catholic Scientist, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by cavediver, posted 06-01-2011 11:32 AM cavediver has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by purpledawn, posted 06-01-2011 12:20 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 27 of 61 (618108)
06-01-2011 12:29 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by purpledawn
06-01-2011 12:20 PM


Re: Why?
I don't understand why Crash has a need to hang on to this misunderstanding. There's nothing major riding on it. There's no fame, no fortune, no free parking, etc.
Pride?
He's actually hurting his credibility on this site just like some creationists do.
Big time.
If he truly is an English Major, then I would say he's doing this on purpose. If he truly believes he is right, then he needs to check his meds.
I used to think he was just an arrogant jerk who really did think he was right, but now I'm convinced that he's doing this on purpose.
If he is doing this on purpose, then he is breaking forum rules, but he claims he isn't.
At least this issue gives me insight into how to advise people to deal with similar situations with Crash.
Yeah...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by purpledawn, posted 06-01-2011 12:20 PM purpledawn has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 49 of 61 (619607)
06-10-2011 3:23 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by crashfrog
06-10-2011 1:20 PM


Against my better judgement, I'm gonna try one more time to explain this to you.
So she says. I don't believe her, and it's obvious from the text that she's not.
No, its not. Maybe colors will help:
quote:
But don't you think that's a pretty narrow way to construe it these days? There's not a lot of competition for Christianity anymore, at least not among polytheistic religions. That's the reason that the passage in Jeremiah is interpreted, in modern theology, to refer to not letting shallow material concerns, like wealth, power, prestige, or influence, supersede more important spiritual concerns.
I think it is an appropriate way to construe it.
There are plenty of teachings concerning spiritual concerns without turning money into a false god.
The red line is a response to the red line and the yellow line is a response to the yellow lines.
Get it?
But I've made no error, as I've explained. Thus "crashfrog made an error" can't be the explanation.
It is obvious to everyone but you that you are the one who made the error in your interpretation of what PD wrote.
You thought that her line in red was a reply to your lines in yellow, but it wasn't.
You're right - it's very obvious tha t she intended to agree with me that the modern interpretation of the verse, as I described, was "appropriate." I mean, who could possibly disagree with that? Why would anyone believe the converse? That's just idiotic.
I think she has a decent point and that its not idiotic. Its that "worshiping a false god" meant something specific to the hebrews, i.e. actually performing legitamate worship of a god, rather than the loosely defined way its used today where it can even just mean "loving money". She goes further to point out that this modern interpretation is a dilution of what it is supposed to mean to "worship".
There's every possible way I could be wrong about this, which is why ever since PD came up with this "misunderstanding" nonsense, I've tried to go back and re-read her comments in the light of her testament that I got it wrong.
But it just doesn't track. Every time I do I'm like "um, no, just doesn't work - there's just no way she didn't mean 'That's an appropriate way to construe it.'" That's a signal phrase for agreement, regardless of PD's later self-serving testament to the contrary.
If you follow through the context with KB:
purpledawn writes:
The Hebrews would still have prepared mentally and physically for battle.
Even this commentary doesn't assume the Hebrews didn't prepare and doesn't imply the horses and chariots were substitutes for a god.
And some in horses - Some in cavalry, commonly a very material reliance in war. The use of horses in war was early known in the world, for we find mention of them in the earliest periods of history.
But we will remember the name of the Lord our God - That is, we will remember God - the name, as before remarked, often being used to denote the person. The meaning is, We will not forget that our reliance is not on armies, but on God, the living God. Whatever instrumentality we may employ, we will remember always that our hope is in God, and that he only can give success to our arms.
Perhaps our disagreement is just semantic. I agree with your commentary; it means that "our reliance is not on armies, but on God." It's an issue of reliance or trust, and two possible objects of trust are contrasted.
It's semantics in the sense that you've changed the meaning of false god(s).
One's god of choice does not want his followers to put their trust and reliance in another god for support. That is what they are talking about in Jeremiah. Yahweh didn't want his people to worship (trust, rely) the gods of the surrounding nations.
To which you reply:
Obviously it was intended as a non-compete clause for religions at the time.
But don't you think that's a pretty narrow way to construe it these days?
and her:
I think it is an appropriate way to construe it.
What doesn't make sense is why you would think that she is agreeing to something that is the exact opposite of what her whole point has been the whole time.
But I realize that its more important for you to "score points" and "win", so you'll use any tactic to get there.
You go ahead and assume that she's agreeing to a point that goes directly against her whole point in the thread so that you can later use that in a "Gotcha" moment where you point out the contradiction.
You purposefully twist your opponents words so that they work better for you. I mean, here you are doing it right here:
I do think that her reply was worded badly, badly formatted, and even a little bit ambiguous, but its very obvious what she intended to say.
You're right - it's very obvious tha t she intended to agree with me that the modern interpretation of the verse
Everybody know thats I meant it was obvious that she intended to disagree with you, but you turn that around on me so that it agrees with you.
That's because you're palying a game here. You try too hard to make your opponent be wrong that it gets in the way of you understanding them properly.
I mean, take this:
I mean I had her pretty much boxed in on her own words. Of course she'd come back with some nonsense about how I'd misrepresented her. That's what you people always do when I catch you in a contradiction.
You're more interested in "boxing her in" and "catching a contradiction" than actually understanding her and having a discussion.
I don't even believe you that you think that she really intended to agree with you on the narrow way to interpret it. You're just holding onto that to save face. Because this time you fucked it up and everybody can see it.
Edited by Catholic Scientist, : No reason given.
Edited by Catholic Scientist, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by crashfrog, posted 06-10-2011 1:20 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by crashfrog, posted 06-10-2011 3:42 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
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