Why is it VERSUS?

Then you are not agnostic. You seem to be leaning toward deism.But you're right, they shouldn't be exclusive, and for the most part they are not. I think the "C" in EvC is more refering to the "creationist" of the biblical persuation. Literalists.There are many here who view it as you do, that some "thing" got the initial spark going then (it varies from this point) either left our universe to do whatever it does, or, played an active role in guilding the process from stars, to galaxies and solar systems, then further along in abiogenesis and finally, evolution.Seems pointless to me to go that route, but that is just my opinion. Many here are satisfied with holding that belief and never reject what has been learned and studied by scientist.With the biblical literalist, who reject evolution, you'll find one fact that is equal for all of them: None of them are biologist. None. I think they feel this is like that show House where, if given the right lines, anyone can play a doctor.Hope this helped...- OniEdited by onifre, : No reason given.Edited by onifre, : No reason given.

Here in this forum I meant.- Oni

It's not the "design" part that is disputed. It is fine to say animals are designed to function as they do.The issue comes up when the design(er) is said to be something other than natural mechanisms working within the framework of reality. Nature designs magnificant things; invisible agents are not needed. Especially one particular brand of agent from the religion you happen to believe in.- Oni

Yeah sure, that would be one form of natural designer.But what is it about nature itself that doesn't allow it to design as well? But it did design the ferraris. The Italian designer was born from two parents who had sex, fertilized an egg, carried said egg to full term, then gave birth to it.Human beings are part of nature, are they not? I believe it can do all of those things, but there is a process.First you need a big bang. Then you need stars to form. Then you need galaxies to form and the universe to cool down. Then you need stars to go supernovea to create the rest of the elements after hydrogen and helium. Then you need solar systems to form, planets to form with the essential elements, and one of those planets to be at the precise distance from it's host star. Then you need abiogenesis, which should lead to evolution. Then you need a long evolutionary process from single cell to multi-cellular life. Then you need one of these multi-cellular organisms to evolve enough intelligence to grasp the concept of automotive engineering, knife making, and fork making and use. Then you get the ferrari, the knife, the fork, etc.Skip anyone of these steps, and none of those things get created. Naturally. What was so unnatural about the World Cup? I know you brits want to believe Spain had supernatural power, but trust me, they were all human beings.- OniEdited by onifre, : No reason given.Edited by onifre, : No reason given.