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Author Topic:   Is Infinity Real?
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 15 of 48 (599131)
01-05-2011 6:59 AM


I can certainly without contradiction describe a universe infinite in space and time. Consider a universe with one spatial dimension, and let it contain a single object which is at point x in space at time t (and hence has a velocity of 1 in appropriate units). Here we have infinite space, infinite time, infinite causality --- and no internal logical contradictions.
It follows, does it not, that these infinities cannot be disproved a priori, since that could be done only by identifying a logical contradiction existing within all such hypothetical systems. So that removes such questions from the domain of philosophy and puts them in the domain of science --- which is not to say that scientists can or ever will answer them, only that if they can't it's no use asking a philosopher.

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 17 of 48 (599161)
01-05-2011 9:51 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by nwr
01-05-2011 8:32 AM


The laws of logic don't apply to reality. They apply to the human constructs that we use to model and describe reality. The logic can be done correctly, yet reach wrong conclusions, if it is used with respect to a model that does not fit well enough.
I guess that's why slevesque said "if the premises are true".

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 21 of 48 (599240)
01-05-2011 11:56 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by slevesque
01-05-2011 2:49 PM


It's the difference then from the potential of being able to go on forever, and that we have already been going on forever.
Yes, but why not?
If science has taught us anything, it's that we can't rule stuff out a priori just 'cos it makes our little human brains boggle.
Think of time as being like space, and imagine viewing it sub specie aeternitatis --- a God's-eye view if you will. From that point of view, wouldn't it look even odder if it just started at some point?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by slevesque, posted 01-05-2011 2:49 PM slevesque has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by slevesque, posted 01-06-2011 12:41 AM Dr Adequate has replied
 Message 31 by Rrhain, posted 01-07-2011 11:38 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 23 of 48 (599260)
01-06-2011 4:40 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by slevesque
01-06-2011 12:41 AM


But I would see time as analog not to space, but rather to moving through space.
In this analogy, what would space represent?
Surely it is the passage of time which is like moving through space, and time itself is like space.
Saying past time is infinite would them be like saying something moving through space has come from an infinitely far distance.
I think it would be like saying that there was an infinitely long line embedded in the universe.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by slevesque, posted 01-06-2011 12:41 AM slevesque has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by slevesque, posted 01-06-2011 4:13 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 25 of 48 (599359)
01-06-2011 5:25 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by slevesque
01-06-2011 4:13 PM


Yeah this is where it's tricky, can time exist without it 'passing' ? Can we really dissociate 'passage of time' and time like that ? Intuitively no, and this is why I find it better to compare passage of time with moving through space ...
In that case we are not in disagreement.
If we say that passage of time is like passage through space, then to the extent that this is true and meaningful (and I have my doubts about that) we have to say that time is the analog of space.
But past time being infinite, means that it is no longer just 'potential' but reality. It means I have actually lived on forever.
No, it doesn't. There is no way in which this relates to you or me personally. The proposition that past time is infinite does not conflict with the statement that I was born in 1974 any more than the proposition that 1973 existed conflicts with that same statement. Why would it?
The proposition that the past is infinite does not contradict the proposition that certain specific things had beginnings.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 41 of 48 (600143)
01-12-2011 8:35 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by granpa
01-10-2011 10:15 AM


What if they all move at the same time?

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 314 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 42 of 48 (600144)
01-12-2011 8:36 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by john6zx
01-12-2011 12:11 AM


The idea that anything has infinite rooms is a premis. This idea is used to form a mental construct. Just because someone decides to say that there is a hotel with infinte rooms does not mean such a thing exists.
No-one said it did.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by john6zx, posted 01-12-2011 12:11 AM john6zx has not replied

Replies to this message:
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