Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 59 (9164 total)
5 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,927 Year: 4,184/9,624 Month: 1,055/974 Week: 14/368 Day: 14/11 Hour: 2/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Phil Plait - Don't be a dick
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 21 of 60 (576585)
08-24-2010 5:22 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by nwr
08-24-2010 4:53 PM


Re: The view from the blogs
Of course, PZ had to chime in.
"There is a fair point being made, that there are multiple strategies that work to convince people to rethink bad ideas, and they don't all involve punching people in the faceand many of the best strategies do involve politely listening and criticizing. But I think the best ideas involve a combination of willingness to listen and politely engage, and a forthright core of assertiveness and confrontation tactical dickishness, if you want to call it that."
The Dick Delusion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by nwr, posted 08-24-2010 4:53 PM nwr has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by nwr, posted 08-24-2010 5:53 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 28 of 60 (576730)
08-25-2010 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by nwr
08-24-2010 5:53 PM


Re: The view from the blogs
Personally, I rather enjoy PZ's style. I tend to think of PZ as ridiculing religion when it is being ridiculous (which is often).
I enjoy the comedy of it as well. However, I think we can all agree that while PZ is right on many things he can also be a dick, and unapologetically so. While Plait never named names I think we can all agree that he had PZ (or someone like PZ) in mind when he made those comments. PZ knows the buttons to push, and theists are all too willing to produce the reaction that PZ is looking for.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by nwr, posted 08-24-2010 5:53 PM nwr has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 32 of 60 (576809)
08-25-2010 5:23 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Percy
08-25-2010 5:12 PM


Re: The view from the blogs
Besides, I want my arguments judged on the merits and not on the strength of my dissing skills.
And that is exactly what we have in the form of peer reviewed scientific papers. They are ignored, both by creationists AND the general public. What is even worse is that the popular press tends to mangle the science found in the primary literature, even though they may have the best of intentions.
People are not Vulcans. We are not convinced by logic and reasoning alone. There does need to be an emotional connection. While ridicule is one of the baser emotions, it does work. Like PZ said, perhaps "tactical dickishness" is the way to go. Science with a few barbs attached.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Percy, posted 08-25-2010 5:12 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 43 of 60 (576947)
08-26-2010 4:16 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Bolder-dash
08-26-2010 5:35 AM


Re: Spreading your worldview.
You see, evolutionists constantly claim they are simply seeking the truth, using science, and judging the evidence as they see it.
Actually, evolutionists are trying to figure out how species change over time and how we ended up with the biodiversity we see today by using the scientific method. That's it. We leave the "truth" to philosophers and preachers.
In a more general sense, there are those of us who think science is important to the progress of our culture. We also think that there are no sacred cows. All natural phenomena are open to investigation. This includes species diversification, the origin of life, and how universes are produced. We also believe that human curiosity is a very important human attribute, and the scientific method is one of the best tools we can use to complement this curiosity. We believe that gaining knowledge just for the purpose of knowing is a noble enterprise. Knowing that there are massive black holes at the center of galaxies may not improve a pesticide, but does that make it any less important?
What we have a problem with is that some theists believe that certain topics are off limits based solely on their religious beliefs. We balk at this, and I think rightly so. We are against the idea that knowledge is a bad thing because it may conflict with belief. We think that a belief that can not stand up scrutiny is not one worth having.
But why, why would they be trying so hard to "convince" the fence-sitters.
Because the fence-sitters vote, and those votes can influence science education. For those of us who see science as a positive influence on the progress of our society this it is important to preserve science education. If you disagree, then please tell us how we would be better off with a generation of children who receive a sub-standard science education. Do you really think the Dover school board would have introduced ID into the school curiculum if it weren't for the support amongst the people who voted for them?
That's fine, I get it that this is your religion.
Ahh yes, falling on your sword I see. You disparage others with the thing that is most important to your worldview. Creationists are so fond of the Polish Firing Squad.
No, yours is a religion, the religion of atheism, plain and simple.
Yes, it is very similar to the sport of not playing golf, or the hobby of not collecting stamps.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Bolder-dash, posted 08-26-2010 5:35 AM Bolder-dash has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by Bolder-dash, posted 08-27-2010 6:48 AM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10085
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 60 of 60 (577811)
08-30-2010 2:02 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by Bolder-dash
08-27-2010 6:48 AM


Re: Spreading your worldview.
No, people who don't play golf don't sit around and come up with the best schemes they can think of to convince others not to play golf.
The question here is whether or not atheism is a religion. Convincing others of your conclusion is not a religion. It is called discussion and debate.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Bolder-dash, posted 08-27-2010 6:48 AM Bolder-dash has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024