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Author Topic:   Phil Plait - Don't be a dick
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3992
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.5


Message 29 of 60 (576738)
08-25-2010 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Percy
08-25-2010 4:40 AM


Re: To Phil Plait's Detractors
Hi, Percy. I generally think that question is a pretty good guide.
But he would be crucified by the real dicks.

Have you ever been to an American wedding? Where's the vodka? Where's the marinated herring?!
-Gogol Bordello

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Percy, posted 08-25-2010 4:40 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3992
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.5


Message 34 of 60 (576823)
08-25-2010 7:15 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Percy
08-25-2010 5:12 PM


Re: The view from the blogs
I largely agree with you: we catch more flies with honey than vinegar.
Most people are "better than that," creationists and evolutionists alike. I encounter creationists unexpectedly at times--dinner party, family reunion, etc.--and invariably we have a genial debate. To some degree, as has been pointed out by others, this is due to social inhibitions that operate face-to-face.
But it is also due to the fact that the creationists I encounter in person are generally not warriors for creationism; they have not publicly staked their intellectual reputation on creationism; they often have never heard a cogent explanation of the ToE; they do not begin the conversation with accusations of satanic dishonesty.
They didn't show up to fight.
My experience with EvC is that creationists who arrive here in full battle dress get what they deserve, including a large helping of ridicule--but usually only after at least a few attempts to engage them in rational discussion. In general, evolutionists who appear on creationist sites are not afforded the same courtesy.
I have also observed that a creationist who suffers a calm, civil dissection of his/her posts will still protest their treatment as disrespectul and hostile. It is, in fact, difficult to destroy someone's deepest convictions and NOT give grave offense, even with the best intentions and the sweetest tone.
Ridicule is like a social neurotransmitter that among other things communicates social fitness; it hurts. But like Skids says to Mudflap, "It's supposed to hurt...it's an ass kickin'!" My wife can ridicule one of my hare-brained schemes with a raised eyebrow: that hurts, too, but it works.
The great power of ridicule--disapproval with humor at the target's expense--should be used wisely. It has yanked a number (too small) of dangerous figures off the public stage.
I probably use it too much. But I think part of Dawkin's and PZ's point is that we were losing the battle for the public mind, at least in part because our opponents were using ridicule to great effect.
We were responding with a reasoned discourse that no one much understood or cared about. Ridicule makes the onlooker ask, well, is that guy's position ridiculous? It is difficult to provoke that question solely with arguments about evidence and method.
There. I've been on enough sides of the issue for now.

Have you ever been to an American wedding? Where's the vodka? Where's the marinated herring?!
-Gogol Bordello

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Percy, posted 08-25-2010 5:12 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
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