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Author Topic:   Do glasses lead to bad eyesight evolving?
nwr
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Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 7 of 25 (574089)
08-13-2010 11:45 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Theodoric
08-13-2010 7:00 PM


Theodoric writes:
Is the human race getting progressively worse in eyesight?
I don't think there is much evidence for that.
We use our eyes differently from the way that they were use historically. To some extent, our bodies attempt to adapt - that's developmental adaptation during our lifetimes, rather than genetic adaptation over multiple generations. And some of the vision problems that we see might be side effects of that developmental adaptation.
There was a report recently, that myopia might be greater in people who spend more time indoors rather than outdoors. I think it was a rather preliminary report, probably not yet confirmed by other researchers. But it is a possible indication of how our way of life affects things.
And then we live a lot longer than was once common, so we are more likely to live long enough to see our eyes deteriorate.

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 Message 1 by Theodoric, posted 08-13-2010 7:00 PM Theodoric has replied

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 Message 11 by Theodoric, posted 08-14-2010 11:37 AM nwr has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 14 of 25 (574164)
08-14-2010 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Theodoric
08-14-2010 11:37 AM


Re: Not sure I agree
Theodoric writes:
Do you not think that people with really bad eyesight might not have lived to adulthood as often as people with bad eyesight?
I didn't need any glasses until around age 16. And even then, they were not very strong and only important for reading the blackboard from the back of the classroom. I don't think it would have been a particular disadvantage in primitive cultures.
I now have pretty thick glasses. But I always wonder how much of that is because I spent a lot of time reading, and perhaps growth within the eye was adapting my eyes for close up work such as would not be needed for primitive cultures.
It's my impression that the eyes are somewhat adaptive, and adapt to the way we use them. People in primitive cultures would use them differently. I think it hasty to assume that vision problems we see in our society have any relevance to what happens in primitive societies.

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 Message 15 by Percy, posted 08-14-2010 3:19 PM nwr has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 18 of 25 (574212)
08-14-2010 5:54 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Percy
08-14-2010 3:19 PM


Re: Not sure I agree
Percy writes:
If I understood you properly, then your experience is very atypical. Most people become more farsighted with age.
I don't think that's the full story.
In the population at large, far sightedness is more common than near sightedness. In academia, nearsightedness appears to be more common.

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 Message 15 by Percy, posted 08-14-2010 3:19 PM Percy has replied

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 Message 19 by Theodoric, posted 08-14-2010 6:21 PM nwr has replied
 Message 23 by Percy, posted 08-14-2010 9:29 PM nwr has seen this message but not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 20 of 25 (574219)
08-14-2010 8:00 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Theodoric
08-14-2010 6:21 PM


Re: Not sure I agree
I tried using google to look for some references. Unfortunately, "myopia" seems to be often used in a metaphorical sense, and a search on "myopia academia" mainly turned up such references. It did turn up a few hints:
Link between myopia and intelligence
... the 66.4 percent increase in myopia in Americans since the 1970s, ...
a curious youtube video
It turned out that the wikipedia entry on myopia has a lot of information. As you read that entry, there are a number of comments on the association between myopia and doing a lot of near work. At present there are only ambiguous conclusions, so this is as yet not adequately explained.

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 Message 19 by Theodoric, posted 08-14-2010 6:21 PM Theodoric has replied

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 Message 21 by Theodoric, posted 08-14-2010 8:10 PM nwr has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 22 of 25 (574223)
08-14-2010 8:44 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Theodoric
08-14-2010 8:10 PM


Re: Not sure I agree
My comment was based on personal observation, and on what my eye doctors have said (presumably based on their own anecdotal experience).
I have added some more links, which also seem to indicate the same association. The last one, showing a relation with time spent outdoors, is perhaps the closest to being on the right track. But this needs more research.
Accommodation and Near Work
Comparisons between myopia rates in 1882 and 1964 showed that the rate is very different for individual professions68 (students in the 30% range, unskilled workers in the 2 to 3% range): While the total rate of myopia was increasing, the myopia rate for all the individual professions except unskilled work was decreasing. Explanation: The overall increase in myopia, according to these results, can be largely attributed to a changed ratio of job distributions from unskilled work towards professional and office work.
Highly elevated rates of myopia were found for craftspeople of various professions, who have to do extensive near work, e.g. for typesetters (in year 1930117), tailoring (in the years 1953118 and 1961119). Up to 77% of the persons in these professions were found to be myopic.
Role of Near Work in Myopia: Findings in a Sample of Australian School Children
Because of the association of myopia with educational performance and close-work occupations, near work has long been considered an environmental risk factor for the development of myopia. Among the various pillars of supporting evidence that link myopia to education and near work are the higher myopia prevalence rates that paralleled the introduction of schooling in Eskimo populations, the higher prevalence of myopia in orthodox Jewish boys who undertook intense schooling compared with that in orthodox girls or boys and girls in general schools, and the presence of myopia among Chinese fishermen who reported reading in childhood.
An NPR report
"If you have two nearsighted parents and you engage in a low level of outdoor activity, your chances of becoming myopic by the eighth grade are about 60 percent," he says. "If children engaged in over 14 hours per week of outdoor activity, their chances of becoming nearsighted were now only about 20 percent. So it was quite a dramatic reduction in the risk of becoming myopic."
At first, that seems to support the theory that near-work causes nearsightedness: The more time kids spend indoors, the more likely they're watching TV or reading a book.
But then Mutti and his colleagues looked closely at the kids before they became nearsighted. And the reading and close-up things they did didn't predict who'd be nearsighted later. "What we found is that near-work had no influence at all," he says. "Children really aren't doing any more or less near-work the children who are becoming nearsighted."
So that's another mystery. Why, then, does spending time outdoors make a difference? At first, scientists thought the outdoor exercise was the key. But it turned out kids who get indoor exercise don't get the benefits of reduced myopia.
Now, researchers are studying whether outdoor light somehow changes the way the eye grows.

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