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Author Topic:   ID - How Many Designers and If ID, Macro or Micro Designer(s)?
LDSdude
Inactive Member


Message 34 of 40 (184993)
02-13-2005 9:17 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by thegenie
12-04-2004 1:39 AM


Intellegence and knowledge.
First you have to define intellegence. There are really two ways you could go with it(I'll tell you which one is my way later). The first way you could define intelligence is as knowledge. At that point you have to ask yourself, what is knowledge? Can you see knowledge? Can you hear knowledge? Knowledge is information. Information is everywhere. A car is a combination of matter, energy, and information. It has patterns and symetry easily interpreted by our minds. Everything has information to it. So is it possible to know every bit of information? Is information an actual existing thing? The question is, if God knows all information, is it becuase he learned it(I doubt it), or because he wrote it? Hmmmm? We think of natural things so... natural. Gravity is a "natural" thing, a characteristic of all matter. But is there matter in the universe without the characteristic of gravity? Maybe there is matter in the universe that doesn't follow any of the physics and/or laws we are so used to. It's deep thinking, and is something we don't usually probe our minds into(it can give you quite a headache), but an all-powerful God could do such things.
So Macro intelligent design is not impossible assuming that God created the laws that govern us, and then created us.
quote:
______________________________________________________________________
while numerous arguments based on hard fact, as opposed to hearsay, can be made supporting the existence of micro intelligence, beginning with molecular intelligence and rising hierarchically to cellular, tissue and organ (the human brain is an organ) intelligence.
______________________________________________________________________
Those are some huge jumps I must say. Molecules naturally form, with no outside forces acting on them, into entire working cells with all of their irreducibly complex systems, and then, the cells begin to grow into living tissue formations which somehow over time flops around until it becomes organized organs that work together as a system, relying on one another to keep the whole thing alive. Wow! No way there was intellegence involved! I just planned and mapped out the entire theory in it's simplest terms! I should pack my things, get a new name and move far enough from home so that no one would recognize me, call myself an expert and then write a book that will make me rich and famous in the history books, and all because I posted on a web site. WOW! I wonder if this is what Darwin did to get famous!
Now the multiple designers question is not a weakness to Design, because Intellegent Design does not say how many designers there were. If talking about roman Gods, hundreds! If talking about little green men from mars, maybe thousands! If talking about Jews, one God. So although we can't determine how many designers there were, there still remains the fact that it was designed by a higher intelligence.
William Parley I don't believe literally referred to just ONE supreme God, just that everything was made by the same creator(s).
Finally, the other way you could go with all of this is that intellegence is the ABILITY to grasp information. The ABILITY to learn. Unfortuneately for this argument, in your little essay, which was well written(I commend you), the problem is that Molecules don't have the ability to comprehend and understand things around them; they are non-living matter. It is the same for cells and tissue.
So I can only interpret your post with the understanding that intellegince = information, and that information was written by God for Macro designing.
Thanks for your insights, thegenie!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by thegenie, posted 12-04-2004 1:39 AM thegenie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by thegenie, posted 02-16-2005 7:49 PM LDSdude has not replied

  
LDSdude
Inactive Member


Message 35 of 40 (184995)
02-13-2005 9:21 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by CK
02-10-2005 8:57 AM


Re: just a quick one?
Quote:
______________________________________________________________________While ID don't tend to mention God, doesn't ID logically eliminate the christian god from the picture? Doesn't the "complexity" of the christian god mean that he must have had a designer? If he had a designer surely he can't be the guy in the bible?
______________________________________________________________________
Why not? God didn't come out of nothing. It says somewhere in the bible that as man is now God once was, so couldn't there be a "family tree" of Gods going back through the eternities?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by CK, posted 02-10-2005 8:57 AM CK has not replied

  
LDSdude
Inactive Member


Message 36 of 40 (184996)
02-13-2005 9:24 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by CK
02-10-2005 8:57 AM


Re: just a quick one?
By the way, congrats on your one thousand, two hundred and twelve posts since you first signed in july of 2004! That's alot of posting, baby! (:
(I am NOT being sarcastic, I just felt bored enough to say that)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by CK, posted 02-10-2005 8:57 AM CK has not replied

  
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