EvC Forum: Faith vs Skepticism

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Topic: Faith vs Skepticism - Why faith?

Phat

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Message 113 of 533 (533571)
11-01-2009 8:01 AM

Reply to: Message 1 by Meldinoor
09-24-2009 4:33 PM

My 2 cents

Larni writes:

Faith in science as the best way to examine the world means there will always be doubt in ones mind.

Some people can cope with this; some can't.

My online friend who happens to be a good critical thinker has challenged me to think about these issues for several years now. Several observations have been agreed upon:

1) Many people seek answers to questions. Fewer people seek answers to queston.

2) Logic, reason, and reality is the only way to find out more about the world, the universe, and the human mind.

3) Many people seek the source of an argument versus the content of what is actually being said. Those who cannot handle doubt will continually look to source...be it a belief, a God real or imagined, or a religious group such as the Baptists or the JW's.

It also helps to narrow down what it is that we are asked to have faith in or be skeptical of. If the topic is creationism, evidence enters the picture and is undeniable. If it is God Herself, no such evidence exists and our discussion turns entirely hypothetical and philosophical. (and keep in mind that I am a believer)

bluegenes writes:

There's overwhelming evidence that supernatural beings are figments of the human imagination.

Just because you cannot disprove a supernatural proposition does not promote it to anything other than very/extremely unlikely.

IF God were extremely likely, there would be no magic to Her! Its like finding a diamond in a mountain. Besides...even if something is imaginary within the bounds of our imagination does not eliminate the possibility that we are glimpsing the possibility of a greater, though currently undefinable reality. Look at inventions and how humans discover things. What was impossible in 1850 is entirely common today. Thankfully, God is at best "extremely unlikely" and not yet impossible.

Edited by Phat, : added comment

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Phat

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From: Denver,Colorado USA

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Message 114 of 533 (533572)
11-01-2009 8:04 AM

Reply to: Message 5 by Peg
09-25-2009 9:59 AM

Re: Reactionary faith

Peg writes:

prophecy is one of the ways people 'test' God and the bible. Im pretty sure that if it weren't for prophecy there would be a lot less believers

I have never found prophecy to be impressive. Can you share with me a few prophecies that strengthened your belief?

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Phat

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Posts: 18348

From: Denver,Colorado USA

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Message 117 of 533 (533608)
11-01-2009 4:50 PM

Reply to: Message 115 by Phage0070
11-01-2009 2:31 PM

Re: My 2 cents

Phage0070 writes:

So are you saying the attraction of your god is that it is almost certainly untrue? Should we quantify your religious feelings as a propensity toward fantasy and falsehood?

Its true that I have a propensity towards fantasy. I traditionally have wanted to believe in God as a rescuer rather than as a distant Deistic unfathomable presence.

Phage0070 writes:

I really hope that I am missing the point of what you are saying, because it seems like you cannot tell the difference between reality and your imagination. Or at least you don't want to.

I can tell. I just don't want to. One question though. How can we determine on a scale of 0=impossible to 100=definite that God is "extremely unlikely"? By definition, God is unmeasurable anyway, right?

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	Message 115 by Phage0070, posted 11-01-2009 2:31 PM		Phage0070 has replied

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Phat

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Posts: 18348

From: Denver,Colorado USA

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Message 187 of 533 (534516)
11-09-2009 1:53 AM

Reply to: Message 176 by Straggler
11-08-2009 1:23 PM

Re: Dawkins Scale

I would consider myself a definite 2.00.

Dawkins Scale writes:

1.00: Strong theist. 100 percent possibility of God. In the words of C.G. Jung, 'I do not believe, I know.'
2.00: Very high probability but short of 100 per cent. De facto theist. 'I cannot know for certain, but I strongly believe in God and live my life on the assumption that he is there(says Phat

)

3.00: Higher than 50 per cent but not very high. Technically agnostic but leaning towards theism. 'I am very uncertain, but I am inclined to believe in God.'

4.00: Exactly 50 per cent. Completely impartial agnostic. 'God's existence and non-existence are exactly equiprobable.'

5.00: Lower than 50 per cent but not very low. Technically agnostic but leaning towards atheism. 'I don't know whether God exists but I'm inclined to be skeptical.'

6.00: Very low probability, but short of zero. De facto atheist. 'I cannot know for certain but I think God is very improbable, and I live my life on the assumption that he is not there.'

7:00: Strong atheist. 'I know there is no God, with the same conviction as Jung 'knows' there is one.'

Edited by Phat, : fixed a boo boo

"All that we call human history--money, poverty, ambition, war, prostitution, classes, empires, slavery--[is] the long terrible story of man trying to find something other than God which will make him happy."--C.S.Lewis
* * * * * * * * * *
Half of the harm that is done in this world is due to people who want to feel important.~T.S.Eliot

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Phat

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Posts: 18348

From: Denver,Colorado USA

Joined: 12-30-2003

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Message 199 of 533 (534597)
11-09-2009 6:25 PM

Reply to: Message 189 by RAZD
11-09-2009 7:44 AM

Re: ~~Re: Dawkins Scale~~ now how about levels of confidence?

looks like I am also a 2 on your scale!

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