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Author Topic:   Does evidence of transitional forms exist ? (Hominid and other)
:æ: 
Suspended Member (Idle past 7215 days)
Posts: 423
Joined: 07-23-2003


Message 184 of 301 (79628)
01-20-2004 5:06 PM
Reply to: Message 183 by ex libres
01-20-2004 4:47 PM


I'll allow the biologist to address the issues in the beginning part of your reply, and instead focus on correcting a bit of misinformation in the middle to end portions:
ex libres writes:
The Second law of thermodynamics states that ALL THINGS move toward entropy. The idea that information is added to our DNA defies this law.
No, it doesn't. The 2ndLoT describes the behavior of energy, and information is not energy. There is no law of information conservation, and there is no law that says all information degrades into less information.
BTW - do us a favor and supply us with your definition of "information."
"The leading mathematicians in the century met with some evolutionary biologists and confronted them with the fact that, according to mathematical statistics, the probabilities for a cell or a protein molecule coming into existence were nil. They even constructed a model on a large computer and tried to figure out the possibilities of such a cell ever happening. The result was zero possibility!" - Wistar Institute, 1966
Show me these calculations.
The fact of the matter is this. We were either created by something or evolved from nothing.
False dichotomy. Those are not the only two options.
When you see how impossible the evolution model truely is, you are left with one conclusion. We were created.
How "impossible" is the evolution model, exactly? Please support your statement with a presentation of your beginning assumptions and subsequent calculations.
And, lets be honest her, most people who don't believe in a creator do so merely because they do not believe in the supernatural but, for God, the supernatural is natural.
That's about as nonsensical as saying that for God, a circle is a square, or bachelors are married, or up is down, etc...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by ex libres, posted 01-20-2004 4:47 PM ex libres has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 186 by ex libres, posted 01-20-2004 5:51 PM :æ: has replied

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Suspended Member (Idle past 7215 days)
Posts: 423
Joined: 07-23-2003


Message 189 of 301 (79656)
01-20-2004 7:22 PM
Reply to: Message 186 by ex libres
01-20-2004 5:51 PM


ex libre writes:
The information I am refering to is DNA so I guess I should have said the 2nd Law would degrade the DNA as energy was lost (aging)not the other way around.
So, then, according to you, how does DNA replication not violate the 2ndLoT? Obviously DNA replication is the creation of a highly ordered piece of matter from many smaller disordered constituent parts. If DNA always degraded, this shouldn't happen, right?
Here are the calculations Page not found | Creation Safaris
As I suspected, these calculations focus on a specific outcome presuming that the observed outcome was the only possible one. It's not a valid argument against something like evolution.
Let me illustrate:
I have in my hand a deck of cards. I'm going to turn over a card:
4 of hearts.
The probability of that card turning up is 1 in 52. Now, I'll turn over another:
Q of diamonds.
The probability of that card turning up is 1 in 51, and the probability of both cards turning up as they have is 1 in (52 x 51).
Now, I'll keep turning cards over until the entire deck is laid out in series, and calculate the probability of that order. As should be obvious, it is 1 in (52 x 51 x 50 x 49 .... x 3 x 2 x 1) or about 8.1 x 1067.
As it just so happens, I have 9 more decks of cards here with me, and I'll proceed to do just the same with each of these decks, and calculate the probability that they all end up as they do. Obviously, if we can calculate the probability of the order of one deck, we can simply multiply those probabilities together for each deck, so we bascially have:
(8.1 x 1067)10 = (8.1)10 x (1067)10 = 1215766545.910569 x 10670 = 1.2 x 10679
If I had used 100 decks, the probability would be 1 in 1.2 x 106790.
Your argument is basically saying that it should be impossible for 5200 cards to come up in the order in which I find them when I finish because the odds are so obviously against it. Yet it would take me just about 1 hour to lay out 5200 cards from 100 decks and I would prove you wrong.
If I can acheive such a statistically unlikely event in only an hour, what do you think nature could accomplish in 4.5 billion years?
What other options are there? Spontaneous generation?
Panspermia, for one. That and the fact that the "from nothing" part of your original dichotomy is not necessarily the case.
Yes, a generalization but not nonsensical scince I have heard unbelievers state so much several times.
BZZT! Logical error: Ad Hominem Tu Quoque. It's not acceptible for you to make a false statement simply because someone else has.
[This message has been edited by ::, 01-20-2004]
[This message has been edited by ::, 01-20-2004]

This message is a reply to:
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