Creationist Admins

Thanks Mike I'd feel very badly if I crossed the line into mis using my admin status.However, in spite of the fact that JChin has lied again I'd still like your opinion of how he conducted himself otherwise since you seemed to feel he was doing ok. I don't see that at all. He was repeating the behavior of his other aliases in my view.

You can probably go to any number of Creationist websites and find complaints about how modern textbooks misrepresent the evidence for evolution. Jesus Freak takes precisely this approach in the The lies behind the Miller experiment thread, arguing that his text book presents the Miller/Urey experiment as evidence for evolution. The thread is now over 80 messages long, and despite repeated requests that Jason post what his textbook says he never did so. Similar claims of textbook misrepresentation are a constant theme, yet the evidence is always thin to non-existent. When it comes time to actually quoting misrepresentation, Creationists can't come up with any substance.The only evidence posted came from an evolutionist: me. I finally posted the page on the Miller/Urey experiment from my son's biology book at Message 86. His book doesn't say that the Miller/Urey experiment is evidence of evolution. It only talks about the origin of the chemicals of life. It doesn't even associate the experiment with abiogenesis, which isn't mentioned until the next subsection.Now, Jesus Freak's text book is an earth science book, not a biology book. And though we found it at the publisher's website, it only contains chapter summaries, not the text itself, and the summary does not mention the Miller/Urey experiment. So if Jesus Freak would like to support his assertion, all he need do is type in the quotation, or scan in the page from his textbook and post it. If he has no web resource to do this, he can email it to me and I will post it for him. If his textbook misrepresents the Miller/Urey experiment I will be delighted to critically and in great detail slice and dice the section to pieces for his enjoyment, and will gladly join him in excoriating the textbook publishers who could so badly misrepresent science.But my suspicion is that Jesus Freak is merely repeating what he read at Creationist websites, and that his earth science book does not make the misrepresentations he claims, he just added that comment for effect.And that is what is so stunning about this, because we have this consistent pattern of behavior involving supposedly devout Christians who happen to be Biblical literalists. They apparently have no problem going against their religious principles by uttering untruths or engaging in underhanded behavior or in simply behaving badly when it comes to supporting their religious beliefs. You could cut the irony with a knife, and one would expect the behavior would be rare, but it is a pattern repeated here on nearly a weekly basis.If evolution is false it will only be demonstrated by honorable means that stand up to objective scrutiny. If you don't have a textbook that misrepresents evolution, then don't say that you do. It's very simple, we learned it all in kindergarten: tell the truth and be nice to people.--Percy

MikeLet me point out one other thing. Jason has always had the ability to email one of the admins to ask that a suspension or banning be removed. TTBOMK, he has never approached any of us. He has never acknowledged that what he is doing is wrong, has told us under several aliases the he will continue doing it and has followed up by opening yet more accounts.I don't see how we can take any other action than simply banning each incarnation as they crop up.

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How pierceful grows the hazy yon! How myrtle petaled thou! For spring hath sprung the cyclotron How high browse thou, brown cow? -- Churchy LaFemme, 1950

My immediate impression was that he was being provocative within the rules, maybe I didn't read into his assertions enough. But please - don't take what I said as Gospel, it was just an opinion of Paul's post really. I have been proven wrong anyway - as he has now actively gone against forum rules.The only recommendation for anyone here - I would make, is to not be too "Sensitive" to comments, as,--> if people are blowing hot air - it will be revealed. As for the admin regularly persecuting none-evos - I personally thought that was just trash, so I didn't address it.I mean - I was super-creo for an age here - and the admin never persecuted me.

Jar and Ned - please don't read too much into my post to Paul, it really wasn't intended as an admin attack - please don't misconstrue it as aimed at the admins. It isn't - it was aimed at Paul at the time.

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Nor is Hambre - he's an admin, and he's a right militant. If I mention "God" in a thread - despite someone else bringing up the issue - he complains about me rather than the person who brought it up.

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Don't be too hard on AdminHambre After all when Jason Chin's latest incarnation said:

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...if those were theists, they'd have been in boot camp by now

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you said nothing.but when I replied that his behaviour strayed close to the edge you tell me:

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Please do not try and suggest bootcamp for someone if they disagree with you.

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I'm not trying to be critical here, just suggesting that you understand that being an Admin and doing a good job of it might not be as simple as you think.

Well, I never thought it was. But I did want to make it clear that the Admins' actions were not related to content or opinions, but to behaviour. Jason can be welcomed back if he starts behaving and following the rules. He would be expected to join honestly and to spend some time in Bootcamp to show that he is serious about following the rules.

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How pierceful grows the hazy yon! How myrtle petaled thou! For spring hath sprung the cyclotron How high browse thou, brown cow? -- Churchy LaFemme, 1950

I've received about 6 emails from Jason and his aliases, each one maintaining the subterfuge that they're all different people. If he wants to come clean, promise to stop creating new accounts, and to abide by the Forum Guidelines, then he can have his permissions back.This isn't a big deal. There's no desire to be vindictive. Basically, anyone who mostly follows the Forum Guidelines (in the same spirit as following speed limits and stopping at stop signs) and isn't a pain in the neck will do fine. It isn't like the administrative control panel is such a wonder of efficiency that we're all just looking for excuses to edit member permissions. It's a cantankerous kluge, parts of it are beginning to break down as the site grows (improvements coming, by the way), and we all would probably prefer to avoid it when possible. But putting all the misbehavior into a single forum is certainly making moderation of all the other forums much, much easier.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

I know it's tough for the admins. Being Ken's mod the other day gave me a taste, he emailed me every half-hour, Lol. (And didn't I tell him to stop provoking you?).Anyway - the point I make about Hambre is that he seems to want to moderate mike - when mike isn't particularly doing anything wrong - and when it suits him to refute me - then he'll do that instead.

And my point is that your comments could be taken much the same way as you take MrHambres. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and you give MrHambre the beneift of the doubt, OK ?

DO you mean, in that - he makes a comment to me, like I made comment to you, rather than the person on the other side of the spectrum? Fair enough.And so this is fair. I am glad we can reason. Yes - I will give Hambre the benefit of the doubt, and end my tongues against him.

Ah, yes, this is a familiar situation, the burden of the reasonable. You didn't reference the specific thread, but I'm guessing AdminHambre is responding to the person he thinks most likely to be capable of being rational and following requests. In other words, it's a compliment. My family compliments me like this all the time, "You're so good at doing the dishes, why don't you do it again tonight?" I can just feel the love and appreciation!Not trying to be flip, hope the point comes across. I think you're broadly appreciated here. And don't think you're alone if you feel like you're getting heat from moderators. If there's an evolutionist Moose would most like to put in Boot Camp it might be me, because I'm as bad as the worst of us at staying on topic at times. Sometimes I feel like he just clicks on the Percy link to see which topics are going adrift! Is this on topic? Gotta go! --Percy

I've been reading through this thread, and a few others too - and I'd like to volunteer to be a moderator. I know I don't post much, but that's because I lurk a lot and I like to read rather than write posts that don't contribute to a discussion.You know I'm not a creationist, but I'm not an atheist - and beyond that I do not want to discuss my personal beliefs. I don't think they should be a deciding factor in who becomes an admin.I've tried to follow the forum guidelines in my posts, and I hope everyone here thinks well of me (if they know me that is).What do you think?The Rock Hound

I prefer not to do such discussions in the public forums.Adminnemooseus

As you wish... emailing you now