Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,913 Year: 4,170/9,624 Month: 1,041/974 Week: 368/286 Day: 11/13 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   answersincreation.org (Literal Genesis AND Old Earth Creationism?)
nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 23 of 105 (261373)
11-19-2005 8:31 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by randman
11-19-2005 8:12 PM


Re: the days of the week
The fact the earth wasn't even created until the 3rd day, nor the sun until the 4th, strongly suggests to me, and to plenty of others such as Jewish scholars (long before the evo/creo debate I might add), that the days here are not our days, as in 24 hour periods.
It suggests to me that the creation story is a fable, not an historic record. The sun had to be there before the earth could have formed.
The authors of that fable obviously thought that light came from the sky, and did not understand that the light from the daytime sky was diffused light that originated in the sun. Thus in the genesis account we see light created before the sun was created, and we see night and day existing before there was a sun.
This is clearly a pre-scientific account. It shows that genesis cannot be taken as a literal account. It has to be understood as the writings of man, not the word of God. It may have been inspired, but it cannot be infallible truth.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by randman, posted 11-19-2005 8:12 PM randman has not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 37 of 105 (265237)
12-03-2005 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by riVeRraT
12-03-2005 10:31 AM


Re: the days of the week
I see the creation story from Genesis 1 as a pre-scientific attempt to explain the world and its origins.
A person with no scientific knowledge can easily see that much of the light comes from the skies, whether the blue sky or the clouds. Without scientific knowledge, there is no reason that you would assume this light to be scattered or reflected light that originated in the sun.
The light from Genesis 1:3-1:5 was simply this background of light, presumed to be independent of the sun.
The firmament of 1:6-1:8 surely refers to apparent appearance of the sky as a dome over the earth. It was taken to be some kind of ceiling, and "Heaven" was the name given to this ceiling. Thus "heaven" means the same thing as "sky", the apparent domed ceiling above the earth.
The sun and moon obviously had to come later (1:14-1:19). For they were lights to be mounted in the ceiling, and God could not do that until after the ceiling had been installed.
This is the quite obvious literal reading of Genesis 1. In the light of modern day science, it is nonsense. In the light of modern day Christianity it is nonsense, for the modern notion of "heaven" is of a spiritual realm, not of a domed ceiling over the earth.
It makes you wonder about modern day people who consider themselves literalists.
My own conclusion, when I was a teenage evangelical, was that one had to understand the Bible as the writings of men (and women), not as the direct word of God. These men and women may well have been inspired, but what they wrote was not inerrant.
The authors of Genesis may well have done the best possible, given what was known to them at the time. It would be unrealistic for us to fault them, simply because what they wrote is inconsistent with our modern understanding of science, and our modern understanding of heavan. But it ought to be clear that modern literalism is foolish, as is the idea that the Bible is the inerrant direct word of God.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by riVeRraT, posted 12-03-2005 10:31 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by riVeRraT, posted 12-03-2005 9:39 PM nwr has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 39 of 105 (265349)
12-03-2005 10:11 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by riVeRraT
12-03-2005 9:39 PM


Re: the days of the week
They wrote it to the best of their abilities.
I agree with that.
What is the difference between the "lights" from this verse:
quote:
14 And God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years,
And the stars from this verse:
quote:
He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness.
I think they did not quite know what to make of the stars. They could see that they were illuminated, but they did not produce enough light on earth to be useful to them.
I take verses 17 and 18 to be referring mainly to the sun and moon, but incidently to the stars. Verse 14 was where the sun and moon were created, verse 17 is where they were installed in place, and verse 18 is their purpose.
But somehow, we can find the word of God in its writings. I don't think that makes it inherrant, and anyone who says that, and believes that, is probably a hypocrite, and doesn't follow it.
I would say that's about right.
People can find the word of God in Billy Graham's sermons, but that doesn't make Billy Graham inerrant.
The Genesis account was for people of that time, and had to be understandable to them. It was not written directly for us. It is not reasonable to expect it to describe things so as to be compatible with modern physics, for then the people of the time could not have understood it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by riVeRraT, posted 12-03-2005 9:39 PM riVeRraT has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024