Ken Ham's Creation Museum

Do you really want the powers that be, i.e. government dictating ideology and what the officials of government deem to be true and false, outlawing what they regard as false? This is what happened in the dark ages when the popes and bishops of Vatican City pretty much dictated to the civilized world what truth is, murdering discenters. The same can be said of over 20 Islamic totalitarian regimes today where holocausts are ongoing. Last century over a hundred citizens were murdered by their own governments which had such laws. Mind altering drugs were used to correct the thinking of some.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW

Why should a museum be required to interpret as "most Americans" believe? Science is about learning. Perhaps some of what this museum depicts will challenge debate and allow for an alternative to what is programmed into the minds of the citizenry in the institutions of learning. Perhaps some long held assumptions will turn out to be not quite like has been held via the work of Ham and this museum.I certainly do not buy Ham's view that the dinos were in the ark, but I do believe they lived with man in the first millenium of life on earth. Perhaps he will have good evidence to support that claim.I applaud Ham for this work. He will be challenged by visitors who see problems with some viewpoints, no doubt. In the end, everyone will benefit to have what he's propagating either substantiated or refuted by the evidence he displays. If it's false, it will come to naught. If it's true, hopefully he will be able to display the evidence to be observed by the visitors representative of all ideologies.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW

Children and parents alike can see the other viewpoint so as to make up their mind. Their parents can decide what they should see and what they should not.

.......Or as is with me, does not buy into the claim that radiometric dating is empirically infallible and that science is absolutely sure as to the properties of the atmosphere, et al millions and billions of years ago. I am as sure that they co-existed as you are they did not. Does that make you as more serious about learning than I or does that imply that my learning has led me in a different direction than yours. I have researched evidence for the credibility of the Biblical record and have applied that to my interpretation of what the two of us have studied and observed in science and application of the basic scientific laws to our beliefs. You need to close down the Constitution first in order to allow for this to happen. Are you sure that's what you want to do -- toss the Constitution into the recycle/trash bin?

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW

So how much presented in museums must be considered empirically factual to avoid prosecution iyo? Thousands of us consider stuff in your kind of museum to be unproven and false. Does that mean we should work to shut down secularist oriented museums? Some significant things which have been in highly esteemed museums have been debunked haven't they?

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW

Ladeeda! You've cited a couple of things you consider fraudulent. You want it closed by govt on that account?

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW

It's not empirical fact until empirically proven and you have a lot of work cut out for yourself to achieve that.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW

I stand by my statement. "Close to" is relative to your ideology and is not empirical.

Ham believes what he has is authentic and it is not proven otherwise. That is not a bonafide lie.Here is an example of a bonafide proven lie and it was not perpetrated on the kiddies by a Christian Biblicalist creationist for the three decades of it's scientific display and use. This page has moved

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW

Jar, your message title is stated as a quote from me so you need to delete it or change it so it does not miss-quote me. You can do that by deleting the name JarAlso stop lying about me. I do not send these folks money. Either change it or delete it.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW

Hi Kalimero. I appreciate your comments.Understaning the world and interpretation of evidence has a lot to do with one's backgound including education, upbringing, area/method of study, intelligence, access to research, ability to understand, willingness to observe all possibilities, et al. Without people like Ham and others all the people would have is what has been programmed into their thinking at school and the secularist museums.The evidence is that man of all cultures has had a religious bent since records have been kept. Imo, that is idicative that there is a spiritual dimension in the universe and that venues of observing alternatives to secularism are good for study and observation of what exists.As per topic, I don't agree with some of Ham's stuff, including young earth and young universe, imo an alternative kind of museum is good to observe. Likely there is some things in Ham's place that will allow for folks to observe where Ham's kind come from and why they interpret the evidence differently than secularists. Let the observer decide what makes the most sense to them. Let the parents decide what they want the kiddies to see and what they don't.I have studied fulfilled Biblical prophecy for over 50 years and see evidence of credibility in that record so with that corroborative evidence I tend to go with intelligent design and creationism for understanding the world. Most secularists are not aware of this corroborating evidence because they haven't studied it. Whether or not the tracks at Ham's place are valid or not, I believe dinos and man co-existed and that catastrophic flood changed the properties of the atmosphere and the earth's surface enough to account for the disparity of radiometric dating and the Biblical record.If alternative thought were outlawed as was the case last century in the secularist communist block nations, freedom to investigate and discuss all the possibilities would not be possible.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW

Razd, me friend, you and Jar sure do like to use that nasty word, "lie," when it comes to debate. It appears that since your arguments are weak, you think this handy little nasty meanspirited word will somehow lend credence to your weak arguments.I've shown how likely Ham is not deliberately lying, regardless of how you, I, Jar or anyone else regards what he thinks about the way things are. I've also documented that the kiddies have been deceived for over 3 decades by secularist museums and the science community which bought into the empirically proven case of fraud. Regardless of how long ago all that was or who initiated the fraud, the kiddies and the rest of the world were deceived by a lie which did not originate by nor was propagated by the Biblical creationist community.I just think it's time for you and Jar to stop accusing Ham of deliberately lying and at least allow him equal consideration that you grant to the conventional science community who have their own credibility deficiencies from time to time. I'm not accusing the science community of lying as you are regarding Ham. My forum conduct is above that level and my suspension record attests to that. My point is that he is not deliberately defrauding or lying to anyone. In America he has the right to present to the public what he sincerely believes to be true as he interprets the evidence which he is observing.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW

Well then, Kalimero, what do you suggest? Should the govt shut down Ham's museum or should it be allowed to remain open for all to see and decide for themselves whether it's credible or not? You're critiquing and questioning a lot and methinks it's time for you to either commit to one proposal or the other or propose your own response to the topic OP.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW

If we all left it all up to the professionals we'd be a whole lot worse off than we are, physically, mentally, financially and politically. I'm into alternative wholistic health for me and my family after having nearly lost my life due to the ineptness of the professional medical community who pretty much reject any treatment which does not involve big $$$. The same goes with auto repair, religion, politics and just about every other profession. Imo, Ham's place has it's faults but so do the secularist museums. LOL! The Jews are back in Israel, the world is emerging into a cashless monetary system, the weather is on the rampage, homosexuality is on the increase, Islam is emerging as the dominant global threat, children disobedient to parents, women are becoming our rulers, disasters are increasing at an alarming rate, the seas are raging, Biblical apostacy is the norm, travel is ever on the increase and at faster speed, the nations are being drawn into the Mid-East, fires on the increase, knowledge on the increase, hatred of Christianity and Bible significant, Israel surrounded with hostile nations, et al et al et al.Which of these profoundly proposed providential apocalyptic prophetic predictions, me friend, can you or have you and your secularist friends debunk/debunked lately? Hmmm? I have so presented my reasons for why I go with this hypothesis. I go with the corroborating evidence of the credibility of the Biblical record and apply that to what I've proposed in my arguments over the years in the forums. Until it's empirically debunked or until I see something making more sense overall, factoring in the corroborating evidence, I hold to it, completely confident that it's the most plausible hypothesis scientifically and otherwise.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW

Hi Moose. I'm not so sure folks are abandoning Biblical creationism en masse after visiting it and likely the more credible aspects of it are bringing some secularists into the fold of Christianity and Biblical creationism. I've never been there so this is speculative on my part. Imo it's likely having a more positive effect than negative so far as Biblial creationism goes. I hope so, but I also hope Ham and his constituents will wake up to the fact that Genesis one does not present a young earth and most certainly a young universe is totally incompatible with the Biblical record as per the eternal existence of God. (My understanding is that Ham is a young universe creationist, 'YUC' but not absolutely positive about that.)

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW