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Author Topic:   Could mainstream christianity ever make peace with gay people?
Lemkin
Junior Member (Idle past 5926 days)
Posts: 24
Joined: 01-30-2008


Message 23 of 263 (452622)
01-30-2008 8:25 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Rahvin
01-30-2008 10:02 AM


You need to read the Bible more...
If you could name one verse that clearly justifies slavery, racial discrimination, or unequal rights of women I would be happy to listen to your argument. It's easy to point fingers when you provide no evidence for your claims.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Rahvin, posted 01-30-2008 10:02 AM Rahvin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Taz, posted 01-31-2008 1:14 AM Lemkin has not replied
 Message 28 by Rahvin, posted 01-31-2008 1:15 AM Lemkin has replied

  
Lemkin
Junior Member (Idle past 5926 days)
Posts: 24
Joined: 01-30-2008


Message 24 of 263 (452625)
01-30-2008 8:26 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Rahvin
01-30-2008 1:33 PM


You need to read the Bible more...
Please name one verse that shows that the Bible is anti-science.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Rahvin, posted 01-30-2008 1:33 PM Rahvin has not replied

  
Lemkin
Junior Member (Idle past 5926 days)
Posts: 24
Joined: 01-30-2008


Message 25 of 263 (452628)
01-30-2008 8:30 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Taz
01-29-2008 10:28 PM


Whoever those people were who acted that way to you were wrong. Being gay is a sin and they should have brought you into their discussion with open arms to help you with the issues you were facing. No single person who fully believes in the Bible hates gay people, but all of them would want to help you move away from sin.
Edited by Lemkin, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Taz, posted 01-29-2008 10:28 PM Taz has not replied

  
Lemkin
Junior Member (Idle past 5926 days)
Posts: 24
Joined: 01-30-2008


Message 44 of 263 (452943)
01-31-2008 8:58 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Rahvin
01-31-2008 1:15 AM


Re: You need to read the Bible more...
First of all I have to ask a question. Did you actually look in the Bible, or just search for words in an online one? Many of these verses were taken out of context.
1. "Exoldus (It's Exodus, but I'll forgive you) 21:2-24 If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing. If he came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself"
a. In that time slavery was legal. The Bible was possibly the only book that suggested that slaves be let go after only six years. If you can avoid breaking a federal law without sacrificing your moral standards than it is a good thing. This does not mean that you should not fight an unjust law, but if you can deal with it until you are free and not break the law, it is better.
2. "1Tim. 6:1-5 Let all who are under the yoke of slavery regard their masters as worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be blasphemed. Those who have believing masters must not be disrespectful to them on the ground that they are members of the church; rather they must serve them all the more, since those who benefit by their service are believers and beloved. Teach and urge these duties. Whoever teaches otherwise and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that is in accordance with godliness, is conceited, understanding nothing, and has a morbid craving for controversy and for disputes about words. From these come envy, dissension, slander, base suspicions, and wrangling among those who are depraved in mind and bereft of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain."
b. first this verse speaks about having a non-believing master. Even if it is not right to have a slave, that does not give the right for the slave to be disrespectful. You are supposed to honor anyone who has power over your life. Like I said before, you could fight against the unjust situation you are in, but while anyone still has power over you, you have to respect them. For example, you may have a really mean teacher who always grades you just a little bit harder than anyone else. This may be unfair, and you have the right to work and make the unfair treatment stop, but you should still respect your teacher. Next is talks about a believing master. All it is saying here is that if the master is believing then there is really no point in leaving, because you are already working for God.
3. "Eph. 6:5-6 Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, in singleness of heart, as you obey Christ; not only while being watched, and in order to please them, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart."
c. This is just what I said before, as long as your master is still in control of you, you need to respect them.
4. "Genesis 9:25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren."
d. This doesn't say anything about black people. If any religious leader used this to spearhead slavery, then it is not a fault of the Bible, but a fault of the man who lied about what it said.
5."Romans 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet."
e. This has nothing to do with the rights of women, it is saying that homosexuality is a sin. By saying what it said about the "natural use of women", it was only saying that it is natural for men to be with women and not men.
6. "1 Corinth. 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God."
f. Have you ever heard of the term "man of the house"? Also, it says that the head of Christ is God. According to the trinity Christ IS God, and God is the SYMBOLIC head of Christ. Husband and wife are on the same level.
7. "1 Corinth. 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered."
g. You have to consider what time period this was in. A woman not wearing a cover on her head to church is similar to a woman nowadays going to church half naked. What is acceptable in society, aside from moral basis, changes as time progresses.
8. "1 Corinth. 14:34-35 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."
h. This is just showing that men are supposed to be the leader of the church. Similar to being the head of the house, the pastor is the leader of the church. This does not mean that women are not supposed to be part of the church at all, but it does mean that they are not supposed to be the leader of the church.
Please, for the sake of the people who read these messages, do not take the Bible out of context. It distorts what the message of the Bible truly is.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Rahvin, posted 01-31-2008 1:15 AM Rahvin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by Rahvin, posted 01-31-2008 9:16 PM Lemkin has replied

  
Lemkin
Junior Member (Idle past 5926 days)
Posts: 24
Joined: 01-30-2008


Message 45 of 263 (452946)
01-31-2008 9:00 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by iano
01-31-2008 7:51 PM


Re: Assuming Sin is the Problem
That is one of the best ways I have ever heard free will explained.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by iano, posted 01-31-2008 7:51 PM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by iano, posted 02-01-2008 4:56 AM Lemkin has replied

  
Lemkin
Junior Member (Idle past 5926 days)
Posts: 24
Joined: 01-30-2008


Message 47 of 263 (452959)
01-31-2008 9:35 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by Rahvin
01-31-2008 9:16 PM


Re: You need to read the Bible more...
Just because men and women are treated differently, doesn't mean that their treatment is unequal. Are you saying that they are the same? Usually men do more manual labor than women, this is because most men are stronger than most women. Their treatment is different, but it is not unequal. Let's just imagine you have a goldfish and a dog. Your treatment of them would probably be very different. You would probably not walk your fish, and you would probably not put your dog in a large tank of water. This is because the fish and the dog are DIFFERENT. They are not being treated unequally, they are just being treated differently.
The ten commandments are not the only things you are supposed to follow. In the Bible God sent Moses to save the Israelites from slavery. Also, the Bible says that you should love your neighbor. Enslaving your neighbor isn't exactly very loving.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Rahvin, posted 01-31-2008 9:16 PM Rahvin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by subbie, posted 01-31-2008 9:39 PM Lemkin has not replied
 Message 52 by Rahvin, posted 02-01-2008 10:09 AM Lemkin has replied
 Message 55 by nator, posted 02-01-2008 6:08 PM Lemkin has not replied

  
Lemkin
Junior Member (Idle past 5926 days)
Posts: 24
Joined: 01-30-2008


Message 61 of 263 (453937)
02-04-2008 7:46 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by iano
02-01-2008 4:56 AM


Re: Assuming Sin is the Problem
iano, what exactly do you believe? Are you a non-denominational christian, baptist, catholic, etc. Sometime it's kind of hard to tell...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by iano, posted 02-01-2008 4:56 AM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by iano, posted 02-04-2008 8:37 PM Lemkin has not replied

  
Lemkin
Junior Member (Idle past 5926 days)
Posts: 24
Joined: 01-30-2008


Message 62 of 263 (453947)
02-04-2008 8:25 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by Rahvin
02-01-2008 10:09 AM


Re: You need to read the Bible more...
Have you ever had a friend Rahvin who seems to lie almost constantly? I can tell you that I do, and lying is actually a big part of who he is, because it allowes him to get out of bad situations and seem better at some things than he really is. This is one part of this friend that really irritates me, I hate it when he lies, but I don't hate him. Similarly, sin is a big part of all of our lives, we all lie, cheat, steal and do other terrible things. I hate many of these attributes, and I can imagine that you hate many of these things too. Between all of our sins, sin makes up a large part of our lives, but does that mean that I should hate every other person? No.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Rahvin, posted 02-01-2008 10:09 AM Rahvin has not replied

  
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