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Author Topic:   Iraq Assessment
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 40 (444779)
12-30-2007 8:15 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Rrhain
12-29-2007 6:06 AM


The Surge
You do realize that "Al Qaeda in Iraq" was never of any real significance, right?
Al Qaeda in Iraq has always been a significant problem. Of those that aren't specifically attached to an AQ cell are still sympathizers with AQ's goals and aspirations, making it more than significant.
And that it didn't exist until we showed up in Iraq, right?
That much is true.
And that it is nothing more than the Bush Administration trying to confuse the American public into thinking that Iraq had something to do with the terrorist attacks, right?
There are plenty of Saddam and Ba'ath loyalists who still exist. I'm sure their numbers have diminished considerably, but they exist.
Yes, violence is down...to the same levels it was when we were saying the level of violence was unacceptable.
If you were the president, what would you do to solve the Iraq issue? Would you pull out immediately, would you withdraw slowly, would you stay to stabilize the country?
And the electrical grid is still in shambles, providing only an hour or two of electricity per household per day. It was better before we invaded and we still haven't fixed it.
Rrhain.... Its a warzone, not a stripmall -- arguably the least destructive war.
The "surge" did nothing. It simply moved the violence from where we were to where we weren't.
I was skeptical... But it appears the Surge has worked. The question is, for how long? Supposing it holds, when will we pull out? What is this Administration's measure of success? It seems as long as there are martyr's for the cause, the war will continue until one side loses heart... that side will likely be the Coalition, because AQ doesn't give a rats ass. I'll have to say that their resolve is quite impressive.

“First dentistry was painless, then bicycles were chainless, and carriages were horseless, and many laws enforceless. Next cookery was fireless, telegraphy was wireless, cigars were nicotineless, and coffee caffeineless. Soon oranges were seedless, the putting green was weedless, the college boy was hatless, the proper diet -- fatless. New motor roads are dustless, the latest steel is rustless, our tennis courts are sodless, our new religion -- Godless” -Arthur Guiterman

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Rrhain, posted 12-29-2007 6:06 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by obvious Child, posted 12-31-2007 4:21 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 19 by Rrhain, posted 01-01-2008 2:11 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 23 of 40 (445167)
01-01-2008 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Rrhain
01-01-2008 2:11 AM


Re: The Surge
Al Qaeda in Iraq has been a nuisance regarding our actions in Iraq. They have no connection to Al Qaeda, have no designs upon the US other than to get us out of Iraq, and became the scapegoat for every single attack. The group did not exist until we showed up and has no ties to terrorism.
Al Qaeda, arguably the most prolific terrorist organization in modern history, has no ties to terrorism? I suppose the PLO is also a legitimate wing of the government too...?
The question is why the Bush Administration and Tal and now you are trying to pass off AQI as some sort of grand threat to the US.
Oh, I don't know Rrhain... Maybe, off the top of my head, it has something to do with the destruction they've managed to cause. Give all the people that were incinerated in 9/11 and Bhutto my regards.
Remember, "We have to fight them over there so that we don't fight them over here," right? As if AQI had any plans on the US. Where is your evidence that they are tied to terrorism?
What?!?! Are you joking right now. Let me get this straight: You don't believe that Al Qaeda is a terrorist organization. Is that correct? Or do you think that AQI (heavy emphasis on the "I") isn't a terrorist organization? We'll take it from there as soon as you answer.
Um, if I were the president, I wouldn't have invaded in the first place. But if I had inherited the complete disaster, I would start engaging in diplomacy to get the international community involved. The country is in the middle of a civil war. There is no reason for our Soldiers to be their targets. The country is probably going to split up into three and Turkey needs to get over it (again, there's that diplomacy thing).
So, just let the country go to shit and call that "diplomacy?" Do you even know what the word diplomacy means? A lot of people seem to think it means just leave.
The Bush administration is LYING about the situation in Iraq and Tal is buying it. They are claiming that things are getting better when, in fact, things are much worse.
Tal is there right NOW! And you're damn right I trust the boots on the ground quicker than I believe the media. The lies stem from the negative reports that the news disgustingly cover like a bunch of vultures. They don't mention the number of schools that have been built or the progress in general. No, instead they need to cater to your kind -- think the war is a total failure. I don't know how many veterans I meet that were there tell me about how the good things almost never get reported. Its only until AQI comes in a bombs the school that Reuters or the AP will come and do a story.
He (and apparently you) are the type of person to whine about how we "never hear any good news from Iraq" when there really isn't that much good news to report. "Where are the reports of the schools we built?" They aren't there because the reporters were begged by the teachers not to divulge the fact that a school was built because if it gets out, then it becomes a target and gets blown up. That is not progress.
LOL! Source, please...
You could almost swear that you pray for disaster, just so you could say you were right. The libs do anything they can to undermine the effort.
If you aren't going to stand behind the troops, then at least stand from of them.
quote:
:But it appears the Surge has worked.
How? All it did was move things to other parts of the country. We're playing whack-a-mole. The entire point behind the surge was to provide an environment for the Iraqi government to meet its benchmarks.
The idea is to siege a city. We've done that a hundred times. But they come back. With the surge, you take that siege, and then you secure indefinitely. It has made the larger cities much safer.
You keep doing this with the troop increase, until the entire country is secured -- as much as one can possibly secure a country of that size. Then the Iraqi government needs to grow some balls, get off mama's milk, and go out there and fight for their own country.
What does Al Qaeda have to do with anything? They're not in Iraq. You've fallen for the propaganda, NJ. Iraq has nothing to do with terrorism. They're in the middle of a civil war that we started. We won't be able to stop it until we get the diplomats in...which the Bushies will never do.
Rrhain, honestly, where do you get your propaganda from -- Democracy Now?
Edited by Nemesis Juggernaut, : typos

“First dentistry was painless, then bicycles were chainless, and carriages were horseless, and many laws enforceless. Next cookery was fireless, telegraphy was wireless, cigars were nicotineless, and coffee caffeineless. Soon oranges were seedless, the putting green was weedless, the college boy was hatless, the proper diet -- fatless. New motor roads are dustless, the latest steel is rustless, our tennis courts are sodless, our new religion -- Godless” -Arthur Guiterman

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Rrhain, posted 01-01-2008 2:11 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by NosyNed, posted 01-01-2008 12:27 PM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 25 by Modulous, posted 01-01-2008 1:33 PM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 32 by Rrhain, posted 01-02-2008 11:20 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 26 of 40 (445300)
01-01-2008 6:52 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by NosyNed
01-01-2008 12:27 PM


Re: Reading K-6
Did you read "They have no connection to Al Qaeda,". Your posts assumes that this phrase is wrong but never says that it is or why. The whole point of what you are replying to is that AQI is not the same as AQ or even connected. (something I am not willing to accept to easily myself). You misread the most important part of the post you are replying to.
Ned, there is a difference between Abu Sayef and Al Qaeda. What are the differences? Geography and the name. That's it. Its the same group, with the same ideologies, with the same aspirations.
Rrhain is alleging that the violence is only because of a civil war. That's not even remotely the case. Sectarian violence is just that -- sectarian violence.
This is not to say that groups like Al Qaeda aren't funding the insurgency, because they are!
If the people that refer to themselves, or who the Bush Administration refers to as, Al Qaeda (in Iraq), are not in fact affiliated with Al Qaeda, then who are they? Where are they getting money to support their effort? And how exactly do you know that they aren't affiliated with Al Qaeda?
Was the assassination of Bhutto also not affiliated with AQ? Where are you getting your information?

“First dentistry was painless, then bicycles were chainless, and carriages were horseless, and many laws enforceless. Next cookery was fireless, telegraphy was wireless, cigars were nicotineless, and coffee caffeineless. Soon oranges were seedless, the putting green was weedless, the college boy was hatless, the proper diet -- fatless. New motor roads are dustless, the latest steel is rustless, our tennis courts are sodless, our new religion -- Godless” -Arthur Guiterman

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by NosyNed, posted 01-01-2008 12:27 PM NosyNed has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by jar, posted 01-01-2008 7:02 PM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 33 by Rrhain, posted 01-02-2008 11:30 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 28 of 40 (445312)
01-01-2008 7:09 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Modulous
01-01-2008 1:33 PM


Re: Schools progress
UNICEF reports that 700 were bombed, 200 burned and over 3,000 were looted between 2003 and 2004. It would be interesting to see what progress has been made towards getting this back up and running versus the damage done since.
Anybody have any figures?
You may object to the source, but it has been outlined.

“First dentistry was painless, then bicycles were chainless, and carriages were horseless, and many laws enforceless. Next cookery was fireless, telegraphy was wireless, cigars were nicotineless, and coffee caffeineless. Soon oranges were seedless, the putting green was weedless, the college boy was hatless, the proper diet -- fatless. New motor roads are dustless, the latest steel is rustless, our tennis courts are sodless, our new religion -- Godless” -Arthur Guiterman

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Modulous, posted 01-01-2008 1:33 PM Modulous has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by jar, posted 01-01-2008 7:22 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 30 of 40 (445324)
01-01-2008 7:26 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by jar
01-01-2008 7:02 PM


Al Qaeda's exploits
quote:
Was the assassination of Bhutto also not affiliated with AQ?
According to AQ, no.
You sure about that? Story after story says otherwise... Doesn't necessarily mean they actually did it, but it does mean they claim it.
Ask
Google
Dogpile

“First dentistry was painless, then bicycles were chainless, and carriages were horseless, and many laws enforceless. Next cookery was fireless, telegraphy was wireless, cigars were nicotineless, and coffee caffeineless. Soon oranges were seedless, the putting green was weedless, the college boy was hatless, the proper diet -- fatless. New motor roads are dustless, the latest steel is rustless, our tennis courts are sodless, our new religion -- Godless” -Arthur Guiterman

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by jar, posted 01-01-2008 7:02 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by jar, posted 01-01-2008 7:31 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
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