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Author Topic:   abstinece-only sex education
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9004
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 59 of 306 (312236)
05-15-2006 11:00 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by Faith
05-15-2006 10:52 PM


STD's are not good.
Ok, does anyone disagree with that?
STD's can be spread (by definition) by careless sex. No one is disagreeing.
What you are ignoring is the topic. Abstinence only sex education is NOT a good way to deal with STD's (or any other bad side effect of sex).
If sexual promiscuity is bad and saying it is a violation of God's moral law (even to believing Christians) doesn't stop it from happening what is the best way to stop bad things like STD's and prenancy?
If you are saying that diseases are punishment from God then I'm sure you would never (for fear of your mortal soul) take any anti-biotics, right?
You aren't actually, as a Christian, saying you want people to suffer for their transgressions are you? Are you?
( please say you are. Us atheists just love it when Christians show their true nature and how abborant they can really be. )
Edited by NosyNed, : Dumb spelling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Faith, posted 05-15-2006 10:52 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by Faith, posted 05-15-2006 11:46 PM NosyNed has replied

NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9004
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 61 of 306 (312294)
05-16-2006 1:27 AM
Reply to: Message 60 by Faith
05-15-2006 11:46 PM


What has NEVER worked.
It is in fact the ONLY way, but of course it isn't going to work in the current atmosphere that trivializes the moral questions involved and treats it as a practical issue or a health issue.
Moralizing has never in history worked. It isn't now and it isn't going to in the future. If you go back to stoning adulterers it still will not stop it. (might have some affect on repeat offenses of course).
Now that we have (or should have) learned that. Let's move on and do something that has been shown to actually be effective.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by Faith, posted 05-15-2006 11:46 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by Faith, posted 05-16-2006 1:46 AM NosyNed has not replied

NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9004
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 73 of 306 (312438)
05-16-2006 12:28 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by Faith
05-16-2006 8:25 AM


Who's in Charge?
Of course, exactly where the scientific view of life leads people: we're animals; we are at the mercy of our biological forces. This is a new idea on planet earth -- even the old pagans knew better. But Science is King even if it's only had that power for a couple hundred years if that, and knows it's right about everything.
This is precisely NOT what is being suggested. We are not "at the mercy" of our biological forces.
We are, however, heavily influenced by them. We had better understand that and understand to what degree.
Then, if we wish to prevent undesirable outcomes, we should understand how best to deal with those biological forces.
We have conducted, over the centuries, a number of rather careless uncontroled experiments in how best to influence people's behaviour for the better.
We have, more recently, conducted somewhat better understood experiments (different places, different approaches,different times) and have some ideas of what works and doesn't.
Abstinence only does NOT work. However, that doesn't mean that one shouldn't point out how safe abstinence is and how picking your time and partner carefully can have significant emotional value as well. It is just clear that trying to give ONLY that message is a failure.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by Faith, posted 05-16-2006 8:25 AM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 169 by riVeRraT, posted 05-19-2006 6:30 AM NosyNed has not replied

NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9004
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 74 of 306 (312439)
05-16-2006 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by Faith
05-16-2006 12:03 PM


The topic is?
I haven't said a word on the subject of what should be taught in schools beyond the need to teach abstinence as a moral principle.
The topic is abstinence only. If you agreed that abstinence only was not a good idea then you should have said so in the first place.
A moral principle is one of individual choice. That, I'm sure,you would object to being taught in schools. However there are perfectly reasonable, less subjective things to be said about abstinence that make sense to teach along with everything else about sexuality that is appropriate at any level.
ABE
The only evidence-based case that could be made could only be made if it were seriously tried, and that can't happen because few believe in it. In other words it can't happen as long as Science Rules the thinking of everybody. It would require people solidly convinced of the moral perspective. Possibly in the alternative Christian schools I hope will become standard throughout the country. Certainly isn't going to happen in the public schools.
It has been tried. Over and over. It has failed.
Edited by NosyNed, : Read more of the post.

This message is a reply to:
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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9004
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 135 of 306 (313174)
05-18-2006 11:11 AM


One study
http://www.pbs.org/...v2005/shelbyknox/special_overview.html
It appears that about 1/2 of US population supports "abstinence-plus" education, 1/3 supports comprehensive education and about 15% support abstinence only. That's good news.
The study concludes that aspects of A-+ and CE do have a beneficial effect but that it is too soon to arrive at any conclusions about AO.

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