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Author Topic:   Francis Collins and Theistic Evolution (Re: the book "The Language of God")
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 7 of 46 (321281)
06-13-2006 10:47 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by GDR
06-13-2006 6:07 PM


There is no conflict between Evolution and Christianity.
I see absolutely no problem reconciling Creation and Evolution. All we learn in studying evolution is how GOD did it.
Most often the objections I see from Christians are either the result of turning the Bible into a goddlet to be worshipped or a wilfull ignorance of both the evidence of the record GOD left us directly (the universe) and the indirect record he left us (the bible). In both cases the Christian that opposes Evolution, the old earth and the Theory of Evolution simply wilfully denies the reality of the evidence.
They are consistent though, denying both the physical evidence and what is written in the Bible itself, performing amazing feats of mental gymnastics so that they can deny the consistency of the physical evidence and ignore the inconsistencies in the bible.
In my experience they usually arrive at their position simply because they do not want to belive reality. Usually the objections have nothing to do with reality other than the problem that reality refutes what they want to believe. I often see complaints like:
no way human beings could be made in the image of God and have come up from animals;
Why? First, who really thinks that GOD is some poorly designed primate with eys built backwards, a spine that is not designed to give us adequate support, no padding on shins and funny bones, subject to Male Pattern Baldness and shingles. that is just silly. Second, nowhere does it say HOW God made man. It is every bit as reasonable to believe it was through evolution from other critters as any other means.
Made in GODs image certainly doesn't refer to these piss poor bodies we have, and to think it does is to make a mockery of GOD.
no way one man and one woman could have been the sole representatives of the human race at that point, but the entire Bible rests on that revelation, all the genealogies, the New Testament reference to Adam as the head of the human race, everything;
Yup. But that is but another of the inconsistencies of the bible. to believe there actually was one man and one woman is to ignore the other creation myth found in Genesis 1. There was a reason the folk that compiled and edited the anthology included both of the creation myths, even though they were mutually exclusive. They were included because they show two different aspects of GOD, the transcendent God of Genesis 1 and the human, personal, intimate God of Genesis 2 & 3. Neither is GOD. The myths in Genesis are but maps, reflections, stories.
no way to hold onto the Biblical explanation of death as the result of the sin of the first human beings, as death would have preceded them by millions of years;
Yup. But that is not what the bible says anyway. If death was not already part of creation there would have been no reason for the Tree of Life. Death is not the result of sin, but of living.
no way to support a belief in the Bible as the word of God because so much of it has to be falsified or explained away to fit with evolution.
Why? The bible is a history of a peoples trying to learn about GOD, trying to define Her relationship with man, man's relationship with It and man's relationship with man and all other things.
The Bible is but the Map, not the Territory.
Often the problem stems from the belief that man is somehow fallen and that once everything was different and perfect. Even GOD never made that claim.
They say that a belief in young earth and Biblical Creation doesn't compromise one's salvation but I'm not completely sure of that, since it fragments God's word to such an extent that some of the most wonderful mysterious depths of it are lost.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by GDR, posted 06-13-2006 6:07 PM GDR has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by randman, posted 06-14-2006 1:45 AM jar has not replied
 Message 12 by Faith, posted 06-14-2006 3:27 AM jar has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 20 of 46 (321479)
06-14-2006 2:23 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by GDR
06-14-2006 2:10 PM


Re: Collins critiques ID and goes for ID lite. (Theistic Evolution)
This is a very interesting discussion on a talk by Collins. It is particularly interesting when he talks about ID. I frankly always thought that ID was consistent with theistic evolution.
ID as preached by Behe and other supporters like ICR and DI may be consistent with some kind of theistic model, but certainly not a Christian Theistic one. The God of ID is reduced to some incompetent bummbler who never can quite get it right and so is constantly tinkering with the process. It's pretty clear already that ID has been discredited as was seen in the Dover trial. Time after time all that the supporters of ID could provide in gefense of their position was either generalities so broad as to be useless or witnesses that flat out lied on the stand.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by GDR, posted 06-14-2006 2:10 PM GDR has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 41 of 46 (323575)
06-19-2006 8:59 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Faith
06-19-2006 5:11 PM


well, now we know, GOD is just human.
I agree with your overall point by the way, but just had to answer this: The reason Jesus was virgin-born was that He was God as well as man, so he got his genes straight from God rather than from a human father; and there is another reason as well, in that the Savior could not BE the Savior if he had ordinary inheritance from a human father, because we all inherit the sin of Adam that way, and Jesus had to be free of that inherited sin from the fathers in order to be the unblemished Lamb of God, without any sin at all, who took on the sins of believers.
Too funny. GOD genes, even bettern Calvin Kleins. Talk about blasphemy.
And now we know, Eve got a pass, can't catch sin from her, no way.
Too, too funny.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Faith, posted 06-19-2006 5:11 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by deerbreh, posted 06-19-2006 10:04 PM jar has not replied

  
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