Sexual expression: your opinion

I've always understood "innocent" to mean "not guilty of a crime." I don't understand why "innocent" to you means "totally ignorant about sex, a completely natural body function." I don't even begin to understand why you think that's an appropriate or enviable condition for a child. Is the sex you're having so bad that you wish you could forget all about it, or something?

Absolutely, thankfully no minds are ever victimized by it. Says the guy with no stats and admittedly no experience with porn. Says the blasphemer who pretends he can speak for Jesus and judge others. Way to go. Perhaps if you are not watching porn, you should read more from the Bible. Could it be that you are the one having the problem? Even though I like porn, everytime I see a sexual image I do not get rabidly turned on, yet every sexual thought you have makes you sick? That sounds pretty badly fixated.If you are ever going to be fruitful and multiply "such things" are going to have to enter your head and not make you sick. But it sounds like you are addicted. You are simply addicted in the reverse way. You have a problem if sex makes you feel sick and you do not find such things appealing. 1) Didn't you just get done making assumptions about every other person's character, including one of the pastor's of your church?2) Didn't you just put all people who like porn into a box without any basis in probabilities, as if they don't have free will, and you yourself suggest have no free will?3) Guess who looks like an idiot to everyone he just insulted (which happens to be everyone else in the world), while insinuating he is the only person with free will, able to draw conclusions based on no evidence, and can speak for Jesus?

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

The word 'innocent' is often used to mean 'little child' in contexts which highlight the child's lack of knowledge about sex. This meaning comes down to us from the slaughter of the innocents in Matthew 2. Of course, there's nothing in the passage to imply that children 2 and under have no sexual experience, but since Christians have always been obsessed with sexuality, it seems natural that they think of people in terms of who is and who isn't sexually experienced.

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"We look forward to hearing your vision, so we can more better do our job. That's what I'm telling you."-George W. Bush, Gulfport, Miss.,
Sept. 20, 2005.

How old are you?... Maybe your intellectual jargon is bigger than the sex you wish you had with beautiful women?..Let me guess, your no Brad Pitt maybe more like the Bill Gates type!(WOW)..The women are begging you to take them out.....

Hi amun,Welcome to EvC! I hope you find the debate here intellectually stimulating and rewarding. Glad to have you aboard!Here, we try to focus on having intellectual debate, debating the issues and not the personalities. Try to stick to the subject and avoid making personal jabs at other posters like this.You can get more information about the guidelines here by checking out the aptly named Forum Guidelines.Thanks!

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Old enough. You? You don't appear to be old enough to answer my question. Or maybe I should say smart enough? ...what? Seriously, I don't follow this at all. Bill Gates is married to a model, you might be interested to know. And I'm married to the most beautiful woman who ever rolled a twenty-sided die.

Oh, I am sorry Crash. That bad? I feel for you From someone who has been rolling platonic solids for over 25 years now, the role-playing community has never been my first choice for wife-hunting ground. I found the wife, then introduced her to role-playing... hmmm, that can be taken several ways...

Well, I certainly didn't start making character sheets to meet the ladies, for sure. But when she walked in the room I failed a Fort save and took 1d4 Con damage - to my heart. Seriously, I'll see if I can get her permission to post a picture. You'll see. She's hawt! Hot hot hot. Heh heh - I once suggested a little role-playing... in the bedroom. She asked me where we were supposed to roll the dice.

Where's the vomit smiley when you need it Permission? Why? Is she higher level than you?Sounds like time for a Coffee House role-playing nostalgia trip...

No, but she is the Keeper of a Most Holy Secret of Secrets, and that's a secret that I would like to continue to... know, if you get my drift, and let's just say that if I piss her off, it won't matter how high my Cha modifier is. Assuming I don't have to roll a save vs. death, that is. Put up your screen, GM.

Well...all of us have seen pornography and some of us are addicted to it. Lets define it, first. I am of the firm opinion that exploitation of a minor is a crime...thus, this is an adult issue. Legally, this is a free country and consenting adults can do whatever they want. In the context of my Beliefs, however, pornography is akin to idolatry of the human form. Personally, I have never been addicted to porn. Naked people of either sex never have turned me on. And I never understood the difference between soft core porn and hard core porn...can something be pornographic if people have clothes on? James Dobson seemed to think that the Abercrombie and Fitch catalogue was "pornographic". What is sexual expression? Is that what Crashfrog is doing?

Hardcore porn has penetrative acts. Softcore porn is just naked women, basically just sitting or laying there. Or standing, if that floats your boat.At least, that's how I've always defined those terms. Holmes, your thoughts? It's probably a fuzzy boundary.

It is indeed a very fuzzy boundary and one that has had an impact in people discussing the "problems" of pornography.As there is no set definition, or no set working definition, studies investigating effects of porn have used various ones. It can be as you guys just said, or IIRC more frequently soft is divided from hard based on violence within the sexual acts. Thus actually seeing penetrative sex is not hardcore, but sex within a BDSM or rape scene would be.That's why you sometimes have people (usually antiporn feminists) quoting a study saying that "hardcore" porn causes desensitization towards violence against women, and they discuss it using the def you guys used, but if the study is actually looked at they meant the violence only. Indeed if the studies are looked at one may find (ahem... will find) that graphic sexual porn in that study they quote actually had a lessening effect, and the researchers went on to conclude that violence itself was the factor for desensitization.Frankly I don't care how a person defines hard vs soft or if they use such terms at all. The most important thing to me is that they openly define what they mean, stay consistent to that definition, and then when quoting studies make sure the study uses the same definition.If I use such terms then I'd generally use it as you guys were suggesting, hard means full action seen, soft is nudity and perhaps some hints at sex going on... but that does not make anyone's defs correct.

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

I think David Wilkerson (Nicky Cruz mentor) once wrote something like:"Television is pure pornagraphy"...which seems to fit the definition (*erotic idolotry*) as well.To which I'd add: "All are guilty of porn to various degrees"Hence, the biblical warning to us *porn-agains*: "He that has not sinned let him cast the first s..."I'm certainly ashamed to speak of such that goes on in my shameful *closet*, (let alone brag about television, etc.), knowing that it seems very *appropriate* to *cover ones nakedness* (even on this EvC site).For my daughters to privately and/or publicly engage in erotic idolatry (any level), though forgivable, seems to me a shame, a *bagage*, and a dishonor unto *holiness*, me-as-a-parent, and/or *future family integrity* (another topic perhaps)This message has been edited by Philip, 11-30-2005 06:24 PM

The visualization of the act makes me sick not the act itself. I am resistant to the imagry of a naked woman. It does NOT dwell in my mind. If I allowed it to stay, I would be sinning. Fear? What are you refering to? LOL. Your screwed up to hell. Yes, because they stir up sexual desire by looking at porn. OK. After marrage is as soon as possible for me.