Why does the USA have so many people in jail?

What's wrong with revenge?It seems like a lot of people don't stop to consider that maybe the reason that revenge feels good, and why people desire it when they've been wronged, and why schadenfreude is such a universal emotion, is because revenge is an entirely appropriate way to deal with crime. I'm open to the idea that there are a lot of crimes committed out of a life of desperation, but there are an awful lot of crimes committed because the criminal didn't give a damn about their victim, or felt that they could get away with it, or even if they got caught the punishment wouldn't be that bad. I mean, when the Press Secretary for the Department of Homeland Security is trolling for 14-year-old girls on the internet, what's the "socioeconomic factor" that provides an insight to the crime? The guy was at the top of the food chain, basically, and he felt he could get away with anything.If it had been a real 14-year-old girl, and not a cop, are you really telling me that revenge would not have been appropriate? Why?

It produces justice. How is that unproductive? No, it does. It punishes offenders and acts as a deterrent in many cases. And it's a crucial step that heals victims.

Why? You seem to be working from a different idea of revenge than I am. Revenge isn't an emotion. The desire for revenge is an emotion, yes, and that's what I was referring to in my post. But revenge itself is a situation, not an emotion.Laws and justice function under the principle that we all agree to outsource the taking of revenge to a disinterested third party, who is best able to clearly identify the appropriate level fo retribution. The state takes revenge for us, even when we're unable to do so ourselves - when we've been the victim of murder, for instance. That's why, for instance, it's as bad to kill a homeless bum that nobody cares about as it is a loved member of a large family. The latter certainly leaves more interested surviors than the former, but in each case, the state is taking revenge on behalf of the victim, not dealing with an economic crime against the survivors or something.The purpose of the law is to take revenge for crimes. Seems perfectly obvious to me. Otherwise why prosecute the murder of the homeless bum? He wasn't worth anything to anybody else.

Well, not every crime is committed by a person who needs to be rehabilitated, so clearly rehabilitation can't form the basis of our justice system. A man who steals cars after a life of poverty and desperation and a lack of employable skills surely needs rehabilitation and training in useful skills.But the man who, say, loses his job unexpectedly, finds his car damaged in the parking lot, goes home early and finds his wife in bed with another man - snaps - and commits a murder? Rehabilitation? It was a crime of passion, a once-in-a-lifetime mistake he's not likely to make again. Does he need to be rehabilitated? Of course not. But he does need to be punished; revenge needs to be taken for the victim.We have a saying - "the punishment should fit the crime." What is that if not a statement of proportional vengance? In what sense a threat? Just because one kills, doesn't mean one is going to kill again. There a many murderers we certainly don't expect to kill again.Some murderers have no need for rehabilitation, and we have nothing to fear from recidivism. We punish them anyway out of vengance for their victims. I think we're both right. Justice can be rehabilitating; it can be a tool of vengance, too. I guess in a democracy we can craft our laws to suit both purposes.

Yeah, I suppose you're right. Hey, here's an idea - let's stop propping up the corrupt Mexican government!

No idea.

I guess I'd like to see some support for this claim that "Americans won't do some jobs." That sounds like nonsense to me.Picking fruit, or whatever? I'm sure it's hard but it doesn't sound so bad. I sure as hell wouldn't do it for 4.25 an hour, but I might do it for 10, or 15. Do you really think you couldn't bus college students down to an orange grove at 20 an hour? They'd line up for it.The problem is that undocumented workers give employers an opportunity to depress wages. Border security? I'd like to see your plan, TC, for securing 2000 miles of border. The only solution is to document these workers and get them on the same playing field as the rest of the US labor market. This message has been edited by AdminPD, 04-14-2006 11:45 AM