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Author Topic:   Limits on Abortion
Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 9.2


Message 120 of 230 (387846)
03-03-2007 5:15 AM
Reply to: Message 116 by nator
03-03-2007 12:07 AM


Re: hypocrites
I can't help but notice that none of the anti-choicers have addressed my post regarding the fact that making abortion illegal does not reduce the number of abortions.
Is it actually a fact? I mean, the levels of abortion estimated in the UK before it was legal is much lower than the current level of abortions carried out. I believe a similar situation exists in the US.
Do you have any statistics from countries which have gone backwards from a state of legal abortion to a state of illegal abortion?

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 Message 116 by nator, posted 03-03-2007 12:07 AM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by nator, posted 03-03-2007 7:38 AM Dr Jack has replied

  
Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 9.2


Message 123 of 230 (387856)
03-03-2007 7:54 AM
Reply to: Message 122 by nator
03-03-2007 7:38 AM


Re: hypocrites
Do you have any links to data to back that up?
I was unable to find any particularly solid figures, about the best I could find was this, cross-referencing with this census, gives an approximate abortion rate for northern ireland of 3.2, compared with 17.8 for england/wales.
The figure for Northern Ireland is, doubtless, an underestimate for the reasons given in the link, but it seems unlikely it's an underestimate by a factor of 5 or more needed to bring the figures up to the level observed in england/wales. Interestingly, the figures for scotland are much lower than england/wales but still a factor 4 larger than those in Northern Ireland.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by nator, posted 03-03-2007 7:38 AM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 125 by nator, posted 03-03-2007 7:59 AM Dr Jack has replied
 Message 127 by Straggler, posted 03-03-2007 8:05 AM Dr Jack has replied

  
Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 9.2


Message 128 of 230 (387862)
03-03-2007 8:05 AM
Reply to: Message 125 by nator
03-03-2007 7:59 AM


Re: hypocrites
Thank you.

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Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 9.2


Message 129 of 230 (387865)
03-03-2007 8:10 AM
Reply to: Message 127 by Straggler
03-03-2007 8:05 AM


Re: hypocrites
The figures given are for NI women coming to other parts of the UK for their abortions - I would hazard a guess this is the most common means to get an abortion for NI (and probably eire) women. After all it's free and safe.
As the link I gave points out, it's based on self reporting of address so is probably an underestimate. Which will skew the england/wales figures up and the NI figures down; however, the comparative size of the populations means the upward effect on the england/wales figures is likely to be small.

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Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 9.2


Message 203 of 230 (388189)
03-05-2007 5:13 AM
Reply to: Message 200 by Dan Carroll
03-04-2007 11:51 PM


Re: What countries? U.S. history.
There are two forms of abortion. One is medication abortion, which involves taking a pill that induces a miscarriage. The other is vacuum aspiration, in which the cervix is stretched open, and suction from a hand-held device is used to terminate the pregnancy. While this method is certainly more invasive, neither option involves surgery.
I have to disagree; vacuum aspiration is surgery. It involves using tools and cutting instruments to alter the state of her body; that makes it surgery - not particularly invasive or serious surgery but surgery none-the-less. Hence the fact that it is usually referred to as surgical abortion (q.v. Wikipedia).

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 Message 200 by Dan Carroll, posted 03-04-2007 11:51 PM Dan Carroll has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 205 by Dan Carroll, posted 03-05-2007 9:48 AM Dr Jack has replied

  
Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 9.2


Message 207 of 230 (388227)
03-05-2007 9:53 AM
Reply to: Message 205 by Dan Carroll
03-05-2007 9:48 AM


Re: What countries? U.S. history.
No, it lists vacuum aspiration under Surgical Abortion. It's vacuum aspiration I'm referring to. I've seen video of vacuum aspiration performed; I'd describe it as surgery.
This, of course, leaves aside that under this definition, (using tools and cutting instruments to alter the state of the body) getting your ears pierced is surgery.
Ok. Fair point. Getting your ears pierced doesn't involve anaesthetics, though, does it?
Edited by Mr Jack, : Additional response.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 205 by Dan Carroll, posted 03-05-2007 9:48 AM Dan Carroll has replied

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