Free will in Heaven

When God created man he allowed for free will. I understand the idea behind this being God did not want “robots” that simply worship, but humans who worship because they choose to do so. The consequences of this is that humanity suffered The Fall and introduced sin. (This may be a poor generalization, but I believe the idea to be essentially correct)When the time comes for mankind to ascend to Heaven our sins are supposed to be absolved and then continue to live in Heaven for eternity. While in Heaven does man continue to have free will? I would believe that an individual would have to retain their free will to continue to be a person, a separate soul. This idea, to me, seems in conflict with what I have been told about what to expect in Heaven.Satan was able to exercise his free will when he attempted to become like God, and was cast from Heaven. I was told that once man went to Heaven that was like the end of the road, no more trials, no more tests. The example of Satan suggests that mankind would in fact continue to have free will while in Heaven. The example also seems to suggest that mankind has not reached the end of the road. Does humanity also have to fear this consequence while in Heaven? Once a deserving soul reaches Heaven is there still free will and all its apparent damning consequences?I would like to know if there is information in the Bible that refers in some detail about this. If not, how would a Christian answer this? (I realize asking about Heaven is like asking what biology is like on a distant planet, I am more interested in opinions)

Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

I dont believe that humanity has to fear the prospect of free will when in Heaven. By definition, any rational creature who was in the presence and communion with the Creator would be irrational to not freely choose to be with that Creator and indeed to surrender the need to change anything.Satan freely chose to become Satan. God never created Satan, remember. God created a freewilled Lucifer who chose to become Satan.Prehaps the implication of freewill in Heaven means that the final choice of our allegiances is yet to be determined (or decided).Satans choice showed irrational behavior. Perhaps once we are allowed to see and experience what Heaven is like, we will have the option of choice at that point.

First, you have to remember that is not from the Bible as used in most Churches. It is from the Divine Comedy and Dante, in tern, took his material from the Book of Enoch which never made it into most Canon but which had just been translated and published in Dante's time.Even there most Christians do not get the story straight. Satan's problem was that he would not bow down to and worship man as God demanded.As to free will in heaven, frankly I cannot imagine heaven without it. It makes as little sense as the ideas that God wanted the angels to worship man or that GOD really wants man to worship Him. A God that would be bothered by folk disagreeing with Her is just some little Prancing Princess Prima donna.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Any rational creature would be irrational? Not "by definition", I don't think. Since when does free will have anything to do with rationality? Human beings freely make irrational choices all the time. In fact, our irrational choices may well outnumber our rational ones.Why would the presence of and communion with the Creator change our (created) nature? That seems contradictory. Surrender is seldom a free choice. It's a last resort in the face of disaster, a lesser-of-two-evils cut-your-losses option. Hardly a "free" choice (though it may be the rational one).My dad used to cite Henry Ford: "You can have the Model T in any color you want - as long as you want black". Not my idea of "heaven".

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Though it seems a given that free will would exist in Heaven. The thought that once in Heaven a person would still have the possible prospect of being sent to hell, to me, seems somewhat illogical. Irrational behavior is the hallmark of humanity! Given enough time to mess things up, I would think that Heaven would become empty of humans.Though I am not disagreeing with you Phat, the idea that "our allegiances is yet to be determined (or decided)" confilicts with what I thought I knew about Heaven.

It does, doesn't it. But I imagine, just as with this time around, it will be damn hard to get sent to Hell.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

To paraphrase, "You can have Heaven in any emotion/color/flavor/preference that pleases you--as long as you are pleased by God." In other words, by definition should we not have to agree that God is the ultimate security...the ultimate parent...the ultimate source of stability...before we could be happy in Heaven?Its not as if Heaven is a democracy, after all.Its also not a Theocracy in the sense that humans have grown used to defining theocracies...but I would conclude that any free will that we had going in to Heaven would be laid at the feet of the Master.What use would there be to reserve the right to disagree with the source omniscient?Any free will that we had in Heaven would of course have to be given to us by God. (or allowed to be kept)Edited by Phat, : add by edit

It just occurred to me that many peoples idea of Heaven equates to our idea of what a good parent would do with adult children.
(After all...don't we have to become like a child... to enter into Heaven?) Consider Adult Children

Some return to the empty nest to surrender their responsibilities and allow the aging parents to not only be in charge but to pay the bills and again support them.

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Others return home to support the aging parents and take over.

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Within the context of our idea of God, some of us may think that God wants us to deposit our brains in a jar by the door and allow Him to be our pilot. (Is God my co-pilot or am I His co-pilot? )

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Others may see God as a proud cosmic parent who rejoices in a creation that has learned to think and grow and discover.

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The latter beliefs would welcome a free will in Heaven, as God sends His kids out into the universe for further adventures.

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The former beliefs would shun a free will in Heaven as disobedient and rebellious towards an obviously superior intellect and leader.

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Our perspectives on Heaven are framed by our ideas about God.

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Personally, I can't see a place where people sing and praise God 24/7 and have a grand time doing so. Why would the Creator need such a display? If He deemed it proper, I would gladly praise Him. I guess that I believe that surrender of free will is what got me to heaven in the first place, so its all His show!

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Edited by Phat, : add by edit

If nothing else, I'm going to train you to stop claiming that all of your opinions are "by definition". On earth, we feel more secure and more stable if we don't depend on external sources for security and stability. We are happier when we are empowered - i.e. when we have control.On earth, we would rather exercise our free will than snuggle up on daddy's lap all our lives. So why do you think it would be different in heaven? Why not? A democracy allows the most people to have the most happiness on earth. Why not in heaven? That's not a conclusion, it's an assumption. Point being: Why is free will a good thing on earth, but not in heaven?Edited by Ringo, : Spelling.

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If you are on a hike and you are unsure of the territory, don't you defer your right to guide yourself to the leader who knows where he/she is going?What is it about surrendering free will to God that strikes such a terror in peoples hearts?Sometimes, its wise to listen to Daddy....especially if He knows the territory and we don't.Edited by Phat, : title

Matthew 18:18 Jesus supposedly says: So whatever behaviors are deemed obligatory on earth will also be obligatory in heaven and whatever behaviors are optional on earth will be optional in heaven.This passage makes it sound as if heaven is just a continuation of the current life as far as rules of behavior go.

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

This is one of the big differences between Judaism and Christianity.
In Judaism, angels (literally "messangers") do not have free will, and the concept that 'Satan' fell is not in Judaism. (Of course, the "Fall" and original sin is not in Judaism either).However, let's go and look at your statement.If being in God's presense is so convincing, even for an irrational being, why would Satan, and a full 1/3 of the angels rebel? What is wrong with Heaven they decieded to leave it?

Why? And you base that on what exactly? You do realize that is NOT what the Bible says.Please read Job.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Real men don't ask for directions. You're assuming that we've already chosen a destination and we want to get there with the least amount of trouble. That's not a hike, that's a commute.Hiking without a guide is an adventure. Why do religionists insist that we have free will, but we shouldn't use it? Sometimes.Other times, it's better to explore the territory on our own.Did Daddy build the territory just so we could see it out the window?

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