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EvC Forum ⇒ Social and Religious Issues ⇒ Faith and Belief ⇒

Free will in Heaven

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Author Topic:   Free will in Heaven
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004

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Message 4 of 30 (362403)
11-07-2006 11:10 AM 		Reply to: Message 1 by Vacate
11-07-2006 6:36 AM

First, you have to remember that
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Satan was able to exercise his free will when he attempted to become like God, and was cast from Heaven.
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is not from the Bible as used in most Churches. It is from the Divine Comedy and Dante, in tern, took his material from the Book of Enoch which never made it into most Canon but which had just been translated and published in Dante's time.
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Even there most Christians do not get the story straight. Satan's problem was that he would not bow down to and worship man as God demanded.
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As to free will in heaven, frankly I cannot imagine heaven without it. It makes as little sense as the ideas that God wanted the angels to worship man or that GOD really wants man to worship Him. A God that would be bothered by folk disagreeing with Her is just some little Prancing Princess Prima donna.
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Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004

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Message 7 of 30 (362464)
11-07-2006 3:56 PM 		Reply to: Message 6 by Vacate
11-07-2006 3:21 PM

The thought that once in Heaven a person would still have the possible prospect of being sent to hell, to me, seems somewhat illogical.
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It does, doesn't it. But I imagine, just as with this time around, it will be damn hard to get sent to Hell.
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Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004

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Message 14 of 30 (362846)
11-09-2006 10:05 AM 		Reply to: Message 3 by Phat
11-07-2006 6:47 AM

Few questions
By definition, any rational creature who was in the presence and communion with the Creator would be irrational to not freely choose to be with that Creator and indeed to surrender the need to change anything.
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Why?
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Satan freely chose to become Satan. God never created Satan, remember. God created a freewilled Lucifer who chose to become Satan.
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And you base that on what exactly? You do realize that is NOT what the Bible says.
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Please read Job.
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Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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 Message 3 by Phat, posted 11-07-2006 6:47 AM Phat has not replied
  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004

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Message 17 of 30 (362870)
11-09-2006 10:49 AM 		Reply to: Message 11 by Phat
11-09-2006 7:06 AM

Re: Make Room For Daddy
If you are on a hike and you are unsure of the territory, don't you defer your right to guide yourself to the leader who knows where he/she is going?
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Only up to a point. You still must test the Guide and Map against the Territory.
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Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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 Message 11 by Phat, posted 11-09-2006 7:06 AM Phat has replied
Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Phat, posted 11-10-2006 9:54 AM jar has replied
  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004

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Message 21 of 30 (363053)
11-10-2006 11:57 AM 		Reply to: Message 19 by Phat
11-10-2006 9:54 AM

Re: Make Room For Daddy
In order to test the Guide I would have to allow myself to question my belief. While healthy, how am I going to question an absolute without dismissing the absolute and going with my own reasoning? And is this not what leads to rebellion?
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Whole bunch of questions rolled into one. Let's take them individually.
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In order to test the Guide I would have to allow myself to question my belief.
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Of course.
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While healthy, how am I going to question an absolute without dismissing the absolute and going with my own reasoning?
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That would depend on whether the alleged absolute stood up to examination.
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And is this not what leads to rebellion?
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No, of course not. Rebellion happens when the authority is found wanting.
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It is said that people often construct God in their own minds as to their own image. (imagination) How will I know if the God I worship is the real McCoy? (Aside from God drawing me)
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You can't. In particular the idea that "God drawing me" adds any validity is totally false. Those who are the victims of cons are drawn in. In fact the BEST cons are those where the sucker feels the most comfortable.
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What sense does it make to do my best if by losing God I become an independant thinker?
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By losing, preferably throwing away God you have the opportunity to find GOD. Hopefully then you will become an independant thinker. Why do you think GOD gave you the capacity to think if not for you to use it?
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Is'nt that the whole root of rebellion anyway?
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No, of course not. That though is the Great Lie told by many clergy to keep the folk from seeing the man behind the curtain.
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Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
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